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Tired of plastic sounding amp modelers? Amp profiling (NOT modeling).

#1 User is offline   Lzi Icon

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 10:49 AM

http://kemper-amps.c..._Redefined.html

This thing is beyond words! How would you like to have a room full of REAL amps? Not models, REAL amps that react like REAL amps?

Melt your POD, it's days are numbered!
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Posted 22 April 2012 - 03:49 PM

I don't really understand the difference between profiling and modeling (seems the profiler is the frequencies sent to the amp and the resulting profile is the model?)

Either way, I could hear no difference at all between the real thing and the profiler. Very sweet piece of gear :) Sexy styling too...looks like it could launch a spaceship!
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Posted 22 April 2012 - 05:14 PM

Yeah Funk, I tripped when my old bandmate turned me on to this thing. He plays through an ENGL. He told me late last week that he was selling the ENGL and buying this. He's spoiled worse than I am so, that should tell you this isn't just the latest modeling toy.

I have to find one of these and play through it, like yesterday! My friend told me the thing spit back every amp he put into it and it sounded exact. That's a huge word right there coming from a spoiled-rotten tube amp guy. As my non-techie friend explained, the amp "reads" the sound of the amp, it does not just model the parameters of the amps controls. After "reading" the amp's sound it makes an excat copy of it. Hey, whatever, as long as it works!

I'm looking for one to try out right now so, one way or another, I'll have an opinion on this thing soon.
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Posted 22 April 2012 - 08:12 PM

$1900 smackers for just the amp... Hope there's lay away LOL!

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 09:36 AM

If someone is writing songs for something other than just the mere enjoyment of doing so, a piece of gear such as this can be just what you need to give your music that little extra bit of mojo that it needs in order to open the ears of a potential client to your songs. When you consider that everyone and their mother's cat has all of the very same amp models, you begin to realize what it is going to take to set your music apart from the pack. $1,900 is a drop in a very deep gear bucket. I've seen guys playing $3,000 guitars through a POD and this has always seemed absolutely ridiculous to me. I have never been excited by the tone of an amp model. Be honest about it, and unless you've never played through a really great amp, there is no way it is anything other than delusion when someone says a POD sounds just as good...Yeah? B/S. I am not willing to just become one of the middle-of-the-road pack. Sorry, that has never been the role for me. If I am going to race, I expect to win! It's all in how you think.
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Posted 25 April 2012 - 11:56 AM

Oh I'd grab one if I could justify it for sure. It looks awesome. For what it's worth I dumped the POD and Line 6 in general about a year ago now. There are better options out there but they still only get you to about 80% of where I'd really want to be. At some point I'm going to invest in a classic VOX AC15 or 30 because that seems to be the sound I really dig. Then I'll be investing in a descent mic too. Right now it is easy to get my ideas out there and Roland/Boss does a much better job.

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 12:22 PM

View PostLzi, on 22 April 2012 - 05:14 PM, said:

...As my non-techie friend explained, the amp "reads" the sound of the amp, it does not just model the parameters of the amps controls. After "reading" the amp's sound it makes an excat copy of it....


Not to comment on whether this SW/HW combo product sounds incredible or otherwise, but this is what all the convolution processing programs (try to) do as opposed to the nominally "modelling" (also called algorithmic) programs/plug-ins/devices. Obviously an amp has no sound of its own (except hum) one can only attempt to infer how the amp alters the sound going through it. You can do that with a formal mathematical model involving various parameters or just "brute force it" by subtracting the output from the (known or inferred) input and generating the convolution function. You can record the sound of your (guitar) through your (physical) amp, take the wave file and input it to your convolution reverb program and use that - there are libraries of these wav files available for various amps on the web.
Obviously a dedicated hardware/software device will probably be more efficient and can have better analogue output with premium components, etc. [r not necessarily] appreciably so but conceptually I think this is no different. You might try the convolution software route to see if that sounds good to you. The dedicated pkg, like this product, will likely give you much better real time (minimal latency) performance though so there is a more satisfying real time experience and this will be more inspiring. I'd love to try this out, but other things to buy at the moment and will muddle through with a combination of real amps, PODs, SansAmps, a Brick and software.
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Posted 26 April 2012 - 01:43 PM

View Postneuroron, on 25 April 2012 - 12:22 PM, said:

View PostLzi, on 22 April 2012 - 05:14 PM, said:

...As my non-techie friend explained, the amp "reads" the sound of the amp, it does not just model the parameters of the amps controls. After "reading" the amp's sound it makes an excat copy of it....


Not to comment on whether this SW/HW combo product sounds incredible or otherwise, but this is what all the convolution processing programs (try to) do as opposed to the nominally "modelling" (also called algorithmic) programs/plug-ins/devices. Obviously an amp has no sound of its own (except hum) one can only attempt to infer how the amp alters the sound going through it. You can do that with a formal mathematical model involving various parameters or just "brute force it" by subtracting the output from the (known or inferred) input and generating the convolution function. You can record the sound of your (guitar) through your (physical) amp, take the wave file and input it to your convolution reverb program and use that - there are libraries of these wav files available for various amps on the web.
Obviously a dedicated hardware/software device will probably be more efficient and can have better analogue output with premium components, etc. [r not necessarily] appreciably so but conceptually I think this is no different. You might try the convolution software route to see if that sounds good to you. The dedicated pkg, like this product, will likely give you much better real time (minimal latency) performance though so there is a more satisfying real time experience and this will be more inspiring. I'd love to try this out, but other things to buy at the moment and will muddle through with a combination of real amps, PODs, SansAmps, a Brick and software.


Ron,

Your explaination of how things work never fails to amaze me! Your remind me very much of my neurologist buddy in Md.

There are so many options available today. I certainly appreciate the value in never saying never. I use amp models, less for processing guitar than for other tasks. A POD can be a fantastic tool yet, for guitar, I almost always prefer the sound of a live amp. This may be due to more factors than simply how it sounds. I find, players perform so much better when they are playing through a real amp in a real room. They seem to reach further artistically. Performance is what it is really about at the end of the day especially while recording, and a model can be tweaked, more processing power can be devoted to developing it's tone such as the (pardon the spelling if it's not correct) AX FX system, and this system does sound nice however, this Kemper amp has that special something, whatever this subjective quality may be, it sounds like an amp sounds.

The convolution 'verb technique you mention may work, and I'll try it out when I get the time to play around with it. This sounds as if it might be a good technique to use after the fact, inside of the DAW but, the most satisfying modeled tone I've ever conjured up was using a POD XT into a Marshall amp/4x12 speaker cabinet as if it were an in-line effects unit, and micing the cabinet with an SM 57. Most of what was missing was now there again, and this lead me to believe that the modeling of the speakers influence on an amps tone had not been given enough attention. I had run previously recorded POD tracks back through a tube amp without micing a speaker cabinet, and yes, it was "better" still, bringing real power tubes into the equation was "not enough" to make me smile. Once the four celestions were involved, and I found the proper mstr vol/pre amp vol balance, the AC30 model we were using for a lead sound blossomed to life. Wrong tubes, wrong celestion speaker model but, it worked very well.

There is something which must be said about how the sound/tone is shaped when a real speaker cabinet is mic'd with a real microphone, something which, I have never heard duplicated entirely "inside-of-the-box." Now, we still have the problem of being able to play loud enough at home without disturbing others, a possible solution here is either to buy or build an air-tight speaker box so, volume isn't an issue any longer. IDK...Maybe but, then the air that is moved when a speaker is excursing doesn't have much room in order for the sound to develop fully either. I've backed away from cramming a mic right up against the speaker cone as much as I used to. Depends on the genre. For full out rockers one of these speaker boxes might do the trick IDK. This Kemper amp may be in my future but, for now, I'll allow my friend Alex to be the lab rat ;) I have my eye on a few other things myself but, if this thing does what Alex says it can do, I have to have one of these.
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Posted 26 April 2012 - 08:43 PM

View PostBurnin Sven, on 26 April 2012 - 09:18 PM, said:

If this is the same German thingy I read about a couple of months back or at least something like it you have to remember that you first of all need physical access to the amps you want it to model. As far as I know there are no plugins you can get so far so if you want it to model lets say a Fender amp you need a real Fender amp to make it happen.


Not entirely true...SOMEBODY has to have the physical access to the amp. Just browsed the community when I first checked out Lzi's post and there's quite a few user profiles.
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Posted 27 April 2012 - 09:14 AM

Personally, I wouldn't care if they set it up to get a perfect rendition of a certain amp. I'd be more interested in using amps how the owners like them to sound :) More fun in my opinion.
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Posted 27 April 2012 - 09:23 AM

Well yeah, REAL is the point! Not only are there user groups, my plan in to book some time at a studio here which has a vast collection of priceless vintage amplifiers and profile away. A recording buddy of mine lives about a block from here and he owns some beautiful hand-wired amps so, I'll model all of those. He has a Dumble clone which sounds amazing. I have some amps. I know a lot of people who have nice amps that would allow me to profile them.

Now, you CAN have what modeling manufactuers have been telling you that their products COULD give to you (a room full of amps).

I cannot wait until they come up with something like this which will profile analog effect pedals and rack gear. Imagine if we could profile electric guitars and basses!

This is it! Those of you who are doing this as more than a hobby need to take serious note of this piece of gear because, your competition surely will.
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Posted 27 April 2012 - 09:36 AM

BTW Ron, I've used the Groove Tubes Brick. Replace the stock tube with something which has been spec'd for low noise. You could grab a telefunken NOS piece or you could call Bob at Eurotubes. I'm sure he has replaced this tube for many customers. Bob always has great advice, and he doesn't mind if you call him, he LOVES to talk tubes. Bob hand picks the tubes which wear his brand. Great tubes!
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Posted 02 May 2012 - 10:46 AM

View PostFunkDaddy, on 27 April 2012 - 09:14 AM, said:

Personally, I wouldn't care if they set it up to get a perfect rendition of a certain amp. I'd be more interested in using amps how the owners like them to sound :) More fun in my opinion.


So, you'd rather use, just for the sake of argument, Zakk Wylde's tones than creating your own? You do understand that this is impossible right? Amp, no amp, most of anyone's tone lies in their fingers. You can take Zakk's entire set-up, have him tweak the amp for you, play Zakk's guitar, use his personally tweaked pedalboard and still, you will never capture Zakk's tone unless, Zakk is the one playing, it just doesn't work like that man. Tone is a very personal thing. The gear involved actually matters very little compared to how Zakk plays. Zakk will sound like Zakk on a $100 beater acoustic, it's just the way it is.You cannot model playing style, you just can't. An amp does not sound like anything on it's own, same thing goes for any instrument. Without a player they are all silent.

A million dollar violin in a glass case has no tone without a player to lend it one.
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Posted 06 May 2012 - 11:52 AM

That's exactly what I'm saying actually. I'd rather have Zakk's amp tweaked how he likes it. I'm sure they've probably got every amp ever made perfectly profiled at this point, so why not get more personal settings? If it sounds like crap when I play through it, so be it, I'll tweak it and see if it can work with my playing style (unlikely, as I don't play anything resembling Zakk Wylde's style) Nowhere did I say that getting somebody's amp profile would magically make me play like them. I'm not interested in playing like anybody but myself, nor did I say anything of the sort.

Kind of a silly post to make on a thread that you started about amp modelling :blink:
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Posted 07 May 2012 - 09:32 AM

View PostFunkDaddy, on 06 May 2012 - 12:52 PM, said:

That's exactly what I'm saying actually. I'd rather have Zakk's amp tweaked how he likes it. I'm sure they've probably got every amp ever made perfectly profiled at this point, so why not get more personal settings? If it sounds like crap when I play through it, so be it, I'll tweak it and see if it can work with my playing style (unlikely, as I don't play anything resembling Zakk Wylde's style) Nowhere did I say that getting somebody's amp profile would magically make me play like them. I'm not interested in playing like anybody but myself, nor did I say anything of the sort.

Kind of a silly post to make on a thread that you started about amp modelling :blink:


If you don't play anything like another player, why would you want a profiled sound of his entire set-up AND with his/her exact settings? Unless you understand that a players sound has very little to do with the gear they use then, it is pointless to even try to explain it to you. A players sound ia mostly in his hands, and how he plays the instrument. For instance, Hendrix could play a strat or, he could play a flying v, and it made no real difference, it still sounded like Jimi playing.

An amp has no real "sound" of it's own. If you play through it, and I play through it, the resulting sounds which come out of the amp will tell you this better than I ever could. When you play, it'll sound like you. When I play it'll sound like me. It's just the way it is. Amps lend themselves more to certain styles than to others, and this is pretty much much all there is to know about amps IMO. A Twin won't make you sound like a country player unless you already are a country player. A Boogie 3XRectifier won't make you sound like a rocker unless you already are a rocker, it's pretty simple. and, no amp, no matter how it's controls are set-up is going to make you sound like anyone other than yourself. So what would be the point? You can sound like you through anything. You'd sound like you on a $100 beater acoustic and a $10,000 live rig. Same rig, same player, same sound. Same rig, different player, different sound...And this will be true everytime.
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Posted 08 May 2012 - 02:16 PM

Dude, I have no CLUE where you got this notion that I think I can play like somebody by having an amp that's tweaked by them.

I disagree that the amp doesn't have an effect on the playing style though. A Twin will absolutely make you sound more country than a Triple Rectifier. Though I'm sure plenty of country guys can make whatever amp they have sound country. And it doesn't mean the amp you use will turn you into a great player in the style that it's known for.
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Posted 08 May 2012 - 03:58 PM

I think the advantage of getting Zak's settings right out of the gate is that it gets ya in the ball park if you were looking for that style. Good equipment and sound is good equipment and sound, and though I wouldn't sound like Zak through his rig I'm guessing it might not sound half bad either... if I was into that sort of thing. To be honest my sound gets lost in Zak's settings because you can't hear any of the cool inter chord hammer ons and pull offs through his distorted style but hey, I'm more than a collection of power chords at this point... ;)

I do lust for that VOX tube AC15 AC30 Twin sound that I can't afford right now. It will be mine... Oh yes it will be!

In the meantime I have a stop gap that gets me 80-90% there on any given Sunday. Plus if I feel like kicking up a Marshall or a Dual Rectifier I can do that with the flick of a few buttons and some knob tweaking here and there. Every unit is different though. Even though they offer hundreds of amp combinations there's probably only 10 or so that any given unit does well without extreme knob fiddling.

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 09:40 AM

View PostFunkDaddy, on 08 May 2012 - 03:16 PM, said:

Dude, I have no CLUE where you got this notion that I think I can play like somebody by having an amp that's tweaked by them.

I disagree that the amp doesn't have an effect on the playing style though. A Twin will absolutely make you sound more country than a Triple Rectifier. Though I'm sure plenty of country guys can make whatever amp they have sound country. And it doesn't mean the amp you use will turn you into a great player in the style that it's known for.


I don't have a notion that you think anything dude, though you seem to have one about what I think. I am not saying that you think that an amp profile will make you sound like anyone other than yourself. What I did say was, and I only used Zakk as an example, was that, a player's settings and amp will not give you their sound.

As for a Twin Reverb making a player sound "more country." Dude, again, the amp will only reproduce what you play into it. If someone doesn't play "country" then a Twin isn't going to make them all of the sudden, sound like a country player, it just doesn't work like that man.. No amp, I don't care if Leo Fender himself wired it, is going to make you sound "country." Yes, a Twin lends itself to this tone BUT, the player has to play "country" in order to sound that way. I can make a Twin scream, I've done it. Trust me, a Twin doesn't have to sound "country. It's the same thing as writing songs, I CAN write a "country" song but, I'm a city boy so, if I write a "country" song and I perform it, the song won't have that country vibe because, I'm not a country boy.

A Marshall won't make you sound more "rock" either, nope, not unless you already sound "rock" without it. A "country player playing into a Marshall isn't going to sound like Judas Priest, even if he uses KK Downing's amp, his guitar and the amp is tweaked to KK's liking...Sorry, won't happen man. Even if he tried to "rock" he will only get so close to a "rock" sound if he's a "country" player. It's not rocket science man.
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Posted 09 May 2012 - 11:29 AM

View PostScotto, on 08 May 2012 - 04:58 PM, said:

I think the advantage of getting Zak's settings right out of the gate is that it gets ya in the ball park if you were looking for that style. Good equipment and sound is good equipment and sound, and though I wouldn't sound like Zak through his rig I'm guessing it might not sound half bad either... if I was into that sort of thing. To be honest my sound gets lost in Zak's settings because you can't hear any of the cool inter chord hammer ons and pull offs through his distorted style but hey, I'm more than a collection of power chords at this point... ;)

I do lust for that VOX tube AC15 AC30 Twin sound that I can't afford right now. It will be mine... Oh yes it will be!

In the meantime I have a stop gap that gets me 80-90% there on any given Sunday. Plus if I feel like kicking up a Marshall or a Dual Rectifier I can do that with the flick of a few buttons and some knob tweaking here and there. Every unit is different though. Even though they offer hundreds of amp combinations there's probably only 10 or so that any given unit does well without extreme knob fiddling.


I get the reason why people like to have "star" player's settings. Many say it takes the guess work out of the equation. My thing is, "guess work" implies that, someone has no clear idea how Zakk gets his sound in the first place, and other than having Zakk's presets, won't ever be able to come close to cloning Zakk's sound. This right here tells me that a person isn't even trying to understand sound, they just want to be able to call it up when they want it. This right here is the trouble with everyone and their mother's cat having the ability to record music. It's akin to everyone being able to build their own space shuttle without having any knowledge of how to fly the thing. If a person wants to "engineer sound" don't you think they should have somewhat of an undrstanding of how to create sounds of their own or, do you believe that it doesn't matter as long as you can just push a button and get close? Shouldn't an "engineer" be able to engineer his own version of a Zakk Wylde sound using his ears?

Myself, I am not a preset kind of guy. I find Eq presets especially funny. Man, if you can't use an Eq without relying on presets this should tell you that your "enginner" ears need further education. "Preset land" only keeps novices from becoming anything other than novices. That's the way an engineer friend of mine puts it, and IMO he's hitting dead-on, center target.

I'm not convinced that because, a model calls itself after a famous amp that it actually sounds anything like one.

If you want an AC 15 man, buy the real McCoy. You'll be so much happier than you will with someone's model of an AC 15. A model of an AC 15 is no AC 15 :)...Not even close. Don't listen to me, record a pass with an AC 15 model...Now record a pass with a real AC 15 miked up and listen. The real amp track will have so much more life to it...Now get up and come out of the "sweet spot" and walk away from your monitors. As you move away from the monitors the modeled track just won't have the same "punch" as the real amp track will, and when you are 10 feet from your monitors you will still easily distinguish the amp track...The modeled track however, won't have the same clarity when you are not sitting in the nearfield. Modeled sounds don't have the same, shall we call it, "staying power" as real amp tracks, they just don't. Some will hear this, some will not. Because 90% of the population cannot distinguish a difference does not instantly imply that no difference exists because, most cannot hear a difference. And, even though these 90% say there is no difference, not one of them in a blind test would choose a track with modeled amps over a track which uses real amps. The "livliness" of the real amps willl win their ears over every time simply because, the real takes will sound much better. Those who say they hear no difference say so simply because, in their heart they want to believe that there is no difference...When it comes to an actual battle betwen a $300 amp modeler and a $3,000 amp...There is no contest but, of course having all of these models gives a person a sense of empowerment...BUT you do not really have a room full of amps...Just an amp modeler...There is a huge difference. And yes, it's a remarkable difference. This profiling stuff is closing the gap between modeled amps and the real thing.

You cannot get a rel Marshall tone by pushing buttons and tweaking knobs, you might think you can but, you cannot. The only way to get the tone of a real amp is to use a real amp. I know everyone wishes this wasn't the truth but, it is the truth. Modelers do not react anything like a real amp, they just don't. Ever tried to get an amp modeler to feed back? It sounds atrocious in comparison to th=e real animal, it just does..."PLASTIC" is IMO... a great way to describe the way amp models sound compared to the real McCoy. Wishful thinking can go a loooooong ways though...Just in the wrong direction. lol
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Posted 09 May 2012 - 12:01 PM

View PostLzi, on 09 May 2012 - 11:29 AM, said:

I find Eq presets especially funny.

I agree. They can be useful for showing what the EQ can do, but actually expecting the preset to be useful for shaping your specific tone...

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 12:57 PM

Ha that's funny Burnin. I have the modeler via Boss/Roland. I always gravitate to the VOX settings when I'm building something. I definitely would try out anything before I buy.

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 10:05 AM

View Postm24p, on 09 May 2012 - 01:01 PM, said:

View PostLzi, on 09 May 2012 - 11:29 AM, said:

I find Eq presets especially funny.

I agree. They can be useful for showing what the EQ can do, but actually expecting the preset to be useful for shaping your specific tone...


Yes! If someone needs an Eq education then chhecking out presets can help but, the truth is, every source is. a unique voice, and should be treated in this manner.


View PostBurnin Sven, on 09 May 2012 - 08:10 PM, said:

Back in the 70ties I had one of those vox amps and I tell you it sucked so bad. Thought nobody ever would seriously think about taking them in to production again but they did :D . My advice go for this modeling device instead and if you want one of those vox amps get the profile dont buy the amp.


You bought what amounts to a "lemon" my friend. There are favored models, speakers etc...I don't know much about Vox amps other than I like the AC 30. I'm mostly a Marshall (modded) guy.

View PostScotto, on 10 May 2012 - 01:57 PM, said:

Ha that's funny Burnin. I have the modeler via Boss/Roland. I always gravitate to the VOX settings when I'm building something. I definitely would try out anything before I buy.


I tend to prefer using AC30 models (if I'm using models). Granted, I don't use the typcal AC30 tone, I push them into meltdown (makes for a great rock lead tone). I like the way 2 12's sound as opposed to 4X12's sometimes. They cut better. I use 4x12's if I want a huge bottom for the guitars, like some metal stuff tends to be nowadays, with the subharmonics on the guitars rather than the kick. Other than the chugga chugga, palm mute chording stuff, I like 2X12 cabinets because, they slice through the lo-mid muck much easier. I like the way 2 12's present the midrange, it is much more "alive" to me. If you want a great AC 30, look for one which has Alnico "blue" 12's in it...Yeah man! Or, try the Celstion Gold 12' speaks...They are pricey but, WOW do they sound gorgeous. The mids are spectacular. The original Top Boost Model is highly sought after.


View PostBurnin Sven, on 10 May 2012 - 06:24 PM, said:

View PostScotto, on 10 May 2012 - 01:57 PM, said:

Ha that's funny Burnin. I have the modeler via Boss/Roland. I always gravitate to the VOX settings when I'm building something. I definitely would try out anything before I buy.


Ditto...ABSOLUTELY!

Lol Im sorry all Vox owners I just had to say it and the truth is I was really surprised when I saw they where back in production. Well who knows maby it was my amp that sucked, think it was the AC 15 I had not sure though its a loooong time ago.


I hear you...The reissuses aren't the same. It's like these clone Neve preamps...They sound like brand new 1073's but, the tone everyone is searching for is, the tone of an older 1073. Aged electronic sound vastly different than brand new electronics. It's the same with speakers. A vintage alnico "blue" speaker will sound mellower, less edgy than, newer speakers even though the specs may be identical. I believe, speakers take on the personality of the player who plays through them all of the time, it "get's used to" the frequencies favored by the player over time. I believe guitars are much the same. If you play a guitar which someone played, whose style was similar to yours then, the guitar will seem "magical" to you whereas, if someone plays it who plays a completely different style, the guitar won't react in the same way, and won't seem a bit "magical" at all. Just my 2 cents worth FWIW

AC15's sound totally different than AC 30's...1X12=A more boxy tone. If you want an AC 30 sound don't settle for an AC 15...If you like the AC 15 tone, don't get an AC 30...Pretty simple BUT do not think that every amp is going to sound the same...Buy the amp that you played through, never settle for "one from the wrehouse." Same with guitars...Buy the guitar that you played, not one that looks exactly the same. Looks don't make sound.
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Posted 14 May 2012 - 08:43 PM

View PostLzi, on 14 May 2012 - 11:05 AM, said:

View Postm24p, on 09 May 2012 - 01:01 PM, said:

View PostLzi, on 09 May 2012 - 11:29 AM, said:

I find Eq presets especially funny.

I agree. They can be useful for showing what the EQ can do, but actually expecting the preset to be useful for shaping your specific tone...


Yes! If someone needs an Eq education then chhecking out presets can help but, the truth is, every source is. a unique voice, and should be treated in this manner.


View PostBurnin Sven, on 09 May 2012 - 08:10 PM, said:

Back in the 70ties I had one of those vox amps and I tell you it sucked so bad. Thought nobody ever would seriously think about taking them in to production again but they did :D . My advice go for this modeling device instead and if you want one of those vox amps get the profile dont buy the amp.


You bought what amounts to a "lemon" my friend. There are favored models, speakers etc...I don't know much about Vox amps other than I like the AC 30. I'm mostly a Marshall (modded) guy.

View PostScotto, on 10 May 2012 - 01:57 PM, said:

Ha that's funny Burnin. I have the modeler via Boss/Roland. I always gravitate to the VOX settings when I'm building something. I definitely would try out anything before I buy.


I tend to prefer using AC30 models (if I'm using models). Granted, I don't use the typcal AC30 tone, I push them into meltdown (makes for a great rock lead tone). I like the way 2 12's sound as opposed to 4X12's sometimes. They cut better. I use 4x12's if I want a huge bottom for the guitars, like some metal stuff tends to be nowadays, with the subharmonics on the guitars rather than the kick. Other than the chugga chugga, palm mute chording stuff, I like 2X12 cabinets because, they slice through the lo-mid muck much easier. I like the way 2 12's present the midrange, it is much more "alive" to me. If you want a great AC 30, look for one which has Alnico "blue" 12's in it...Yeah man! Or, try the Celstion Gold 12' speaks...They are pricey but, WOW do they sound gorgeous. The mids are spectacular. The original Top Boost Model is highly sought after.


View PostBurnin Sven, on 10 May 2012 - 06:24 PM, said:

View PostScotto, on 10 May 2012 - 01:57 PM, said:

Ha that's funny Burnin. I have the modeler via Boss/Roland. I always gravitate to the VOX settings when I'm building something. I definitely would try out anything before I buy.


Ditto...ABSOLUTELY!

Lol Im sorry all Vox owners I just had to say it and the truth is I was really surprised when I saw they where back in production. Well who knows maby it was my amp that sucked, think it was the AC 15 I had not sure though its a loooong time ago.


I hear you...The reissuses aren't the same. It's like these clone Neve preamps...They sound like brand new 1073's but, the tone everyone is searching for is, the tone of an older 1073. Aged electronic sound vastly different than brand new electronics. It's the same with speakers. A vintage alnico "blue" speaker will sound mellower, less edgy than, newer speakers even though the specs may be identical. I believe, speakers take on the personality of the player who plays through them all of the time, it "get's used to" the frequencies favored by the player over time. I believe guitars are much the same. If you play a guitar which someone played, whose style was similar to yours then, the guitar will seem "magical" to you whereas, if someone plays it who plays a completely different style, the guitar won't react in the same way, and won't seem a bit "magical" at all. Just my 2 cents worth FWIW

AC15's sound totally different than AC 30's...1X12=A more boxy tone. If you want an AC 30 sound don't settle for an AC 15...If you like the AC 15 tone, don't get an AC 30...Pretty simple BUT do not think that every amp is going to sound the same...Buy the amp that you played through, never settle for "one from the wrehouse." Same with guitars...Buy the guitar that you played, not one that looks exactly the same. Looks don't make sound.


About the vox I think they actually did sound just as bad as I say here both 15 and the 30 lol. The new line they put in production might sound different though I dont know about that. Probably they just bought the name and put out a completely different amp on the market but saying it was the same since vintage do sell. Its probably the same as with the Hagstrom guitars which sucked everyone of them back then when the factory still was located here in sweden. Poor copies of Gibson they where but probably the new line of products they put out today are very good guitars.

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 09:07 AM

View PostBurnin Sven, on 14 May 2012 - 09:43 PM, said:

View PostLzi, on 14 May 2012 - 11:05 AM, said:

View Postm24p, on 09 May 2012 - 01:01 PM, said:

View PostLzi, on 09 May 2012 - 11:29 AM, said:

I find Eq presets especially funny.

I agree. They can be useful for showing what the EQ can do, but actually expecting the preset to be useful for shaping your specific tone...


Yes! If someone needs an Eq education then chhecking out presets can help but, the truth is, every source is. a unique voice, and should be treated in this manner.


View PostBurnin Sven, on 09 May 2012 - 08:10 PM, said:

Back in the 70ties I had one of those vox amps and I tell you it sucked so bad. Thought nobody ever would seriously think about taking them in to production again but they did :D . My advice go for this modeling device instead and if you want one of those vox amps get the profile dont buy the amp.


You bought what amounts to a "lemon" my friend. There are favored models, speakers etc...I don't know much about Vox amps other than I like the AC 30. I'm mostly a Marshall (modded) guy.

View PostScotto, on 10 May 2012 - 01:57 PM, said:

Ha that's funny Burnin. I have the modeler via Boss/Roland. I always gravitate to the VOX settings when I'm building something. I definitely would try out anything before I buy.


I tend to prefer using AC30 models (if I'm using models). Granted, I don't use the typcal AC30 tone, I push them into meltdown (makes for a great rock lead tone). I like the way 2 12's sound as opposed to 4X12's sometimes. They cut better. I use 4x12's if I want a huge bottom for the guitars, like some metal stuff tends to be nowadays, with the subharmonics on the guitars rather than the kick. Other than the chugga chugga, palm mute chording stuff, I like 2X12 cabinets because, they slice through the lo-mid muck much easier. I like the way 2 12's present the midrange, it is much more "alive" to me. If you want a great AC 30, look for one which has Alnico "blue" 12's in it...Yeah man! Or, try the Celstion Gold 12' speaks...They are pricey but, WOW do they sound gorgeous. The mids are spectacular. The original Top Boost Model is highly sought after.


View PostBurnin Sven, on 10 May 2012 - 06:24 PM, said:

View PostScotto, on 10 May 2012 - 01:57 PM, said:

Ha that's funny Burnin. I have the modeler via Boss/Roland. I always gravitate to the VOX settings when I'm building something. I definitely would try out anything before I buy.


Ditto...ABSOLUTELY!

Lol Im sorry all Vox owners I just had to say it and the truth is I was really surprised when I saw they where back in production. Well who knows maby it was my amp that sucked, think it was the AC 15 I had not sure though its a loooong time ago.


I hear you...The reissuses aren't the same. It's like these clone Neve preamps...They sound like brand new 1073's but, the tone everyone is searching for is, the tone of an older 1073. Aged electronic sound vastly different than brand new electronics. It's the same with speakers. A vintage alnico "blue" speaker will sound mellower, less edgy than, newer speakers even though the specs may be identical. I believe, speakers take on the personality of the player who plays through them all of the time, it "get's used to" the frequencies favored by the player over time. I believe guitars are much the same. If you play a guitar which someone played, whose style was similar to yours then, the guitar will seem "magical" to you whereas, if someone plays it who plays a completely different style, the guitar won't react in the same way, and won't seem a bit "magical" at all. Just my 2 cents worth FWIW

AC15's sound totally different than AC 30's...1X12=A more boxy tone. If you want an AC 30 sound don't settle for an AC 15...If you like the AC 15 tone, don't get an AC 30...Pretty simple BUT do not think that every amp is going to sound the same...Buy the amp that you played through, never settle for "one from the wrehouse." Same with guitars...Buy the guitar that you played, not one that looks exactly the same. Looks don't make sound.


About the vox I think they actually did sound just as bad as I say here both 15 and the 30 lol. The new line they put in production might sound different though I dont know about that. Probably they just bought the name and put out a completely different amp on the market but saying it was the same since vintage do sell. Its probably the same as with the Hagstrom guitars which sucked everyone of them back then when the factory still was located here in sweden. Poor copies of Gibson they where but probably the new line of products they put out today are very good guitars.


I don't know about the reissues, they probably are just as you say, a new amp which someone placed the VOX name on after they purchased the rights to it...Who knows man...We live in an age of copies, models, and supposed sound-a-likes so, what should we expect...greatness? I have come to expect mediocrity, not only in gear but, also from todays musician's. It is symptomatic of the disease we call cloning. Everyone sems to adore the fact that they can use a model of the same amp their hero uses, and grab a cheap copy of their favorite guitar and scream about it sounding "excatly the same!" LOL... Carbon copies never have the same brilliance as an original...As it works with paper so, it is with music today.
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Posted 16 May 2012 - 10:15 AM

Vox was bought by Korg in the 90's. Supposedly the "new old" amps they're putting out are quite faithful to the originals though.
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Posted 16 May 2012 - 10:32 AM

The latest Foo Fighters has a VOX AC30 somewhere in the mix amongst other things and that is some of the best guitar tone I've heard in a while. Though they mixed in a baritone guitar to get it reallyt thickened up. Different strokes for different folks...

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 01:33 PM

I've always liked the "Vox" tone, and I've heard the new ones, and yeah they sound like a "Vox." Are they as faithful in tone to the vintage ones ? I'd have to do a side by side to say for sure.

But just like an AK-47, or a Ducati motorcycle, they have a very distinctive tone to them, and you can tell right away you're hearing a Vox.

The Vox Lil Night train, sweet. http://www.youtube.c...ature=fvwp&NR=1
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