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Conversations with God not about Religion but spirituality

#1 User is offline   DannyDep Icon

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 03:04 PM

First let me say that I'm not into Self-Help books.

But thanks to my good mate (still, I hope :unsure: ) Simon Williams (aka SimpleSimon) I was introduced to the works of Neale Donald Walsch, author of CWG.
Before I continue, please understand that the following remark is not meant to be taken in a condescending manner.
On the contrary, it has taken me most of my adult years to get to the point where I am able to see things from a completely different perspective.
This book may not be for you, at least not right now. But even if it weren't, I'd keep it around just to use as a doorstop.
Who knows, one day it might change your perspective too. ;)

There are those here right now whom I do feel will connect with Mr. Walsch's words, or as I am sure Mr. Walsch would say, "would connect with God's words".

I've read CWG a couple of times now and there are too many highlighted passages on just about every page of the book to mention any worthily.

I am reading another of his books called "When God Steps In, Miracles Happen".
I only wish that I had invested in the stock of Sharpie. <_<

It is a very rewarding journey that I can't help but at least offer up to my fellow Muser's.

If you wish to find out more about Mr. Walsch, may I suggest that you have a listen to this podcast, which he has made available to anyone wishing to listen.
It's such a refreshing way to look at life and beyond. Have fun. :)
Peace.

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#2 User is offline   Alistair S Icon

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 03:22 PM

I'll look into it. You're the second person I've heard good things about this from.

Thanks, Danny.
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Posted 19 February 2012 - 06:22 PM

It seems a bit cultish and new-agey but then again, it appears to be presented with a focus on the positive and the potential for greater spiritual development on a personal level.

For that, it gets a thumbs up. I haven't yet read "Conversation's With God" but will most likely end up doing so.
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#4 User is offline   Bruce N Icon

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 10:56 PM

For $400 dollars and 7 weeks of your time, you too can find fulfillment in your life, answers to the daunts of your existence.

Even though God has been keeping this secret from you for all these years, for $400 bucks I can sell you some insider information, and let you know how you can take advantage of what God is offering in terms of life fulfillment, but that only a few know what are the secrets. Let me expose the 3 secrets that God will not revel to you, but chosen instead to make them exclusive to me.

Sounds like any other religious con to me. Posted Image
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#5 User is offline   Simple Simon Icon

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 03:30 AM

View PostBruce N, on 20 February 2012 - 03:56 PM, said:

For $400 dollars and 7 weeks of your time, you too can find fulfillment in your life, answers to the daunts of your existence.

Even though God has been keeping this secret from you all these years, for $400 bucks I can sell you some insider information, and let you know how you can take advantage of what God is offering in terms of life fulfillment, but that only a few know what is available to all. Let me exposed the 3 secrets that God will not revel to you, but choose instead to make them exclusive to me.

Sounds like any other religious con to me. Posted Image


Ya know, Bruce, I haven't yet listened to that podcast. Have you now saved me the time it would take to do so?

Like you, I turn off to ANY "spiritual" or "religious" message that asks for money up front (although, in a real sense, I guess any book we buy on the subject kinda does this anyway).

I came across this Walsh fella quite a few years ago and at a time when his first book was quite helpful to me. I felt, and still feel, that it was written with honest intent. What was useful to me at that time was that it was a timely reminder of much that I already knew and needed to be reminded of. I find most of these kinds of books are like that. For me, it was the right book at the right time - just as it seems to have been for my friend, Dan.

I seem to recall at the time that Walsh said something about writing just three books, and I remember thinking that I bet he couldn't stop at that. And sure enough, he didn't. I felt the first book pretty much said enough, and the second and third (both of which I read) felt relatively forced and a bit superfluous.

Danny notes that, "This book may not be for you, at least not right now", and I think this can be said about a great many books, and particularly those that discuss "spiritual" matters. A couple of months ago, I received in the post a book called, "Re-Wiring the Soul". When Robyn asked me when, why and from where I'd ordered it, I honestly couldn't remember, although I had a vague recollection of some impulsive late night moment a couple of weeks prior. So anyway, I started reading it and was quite enjoying it. Like Walsh's book, I found it simply served to remind me of things that I already knew but which I all-too-often allowed myself to forget, as I got caught up in my egoic illusions of the world.

I hadn't got far into the book when a good friend of mine went through something of a crisis in his life and arrived on our doorstep several times in very distraught states. I am not generally one to worry, but I was concerned that seemed on the verge of something quite drastic. Anyway, the long and the short of it is that it suddenly occurred to me at some stage to lend him my new book. As I said to him at the time, "I wasn't sure why I bought this, but now I have a feeling that I actually bought it for you".


A week or so later I happened to be taking an early morning walk on the beach when, against all odds (or what we might think of odds... this is a beach where I would rarely see more than maybe a dozen people during a 40 minute walk) I happened to bump into my friend and asked him what he was doing. He laughed (and that was great in itself) and said, "I'm re-wiring my soul". Since then, my friend has entered a whole new phase of his life, with a whole new awareness - a whole new perspective - and it's lovely to see.

He has many times apologised for having taken so long to finish the book. He says he's still just digesting it, bit by bit and he's asked me where he can order his own copy from so he return mine. But, as silly as this might seem to some, I KNOW I bought that book for him. I don't want or need it back.

So yeah, Walsh might have got a bit caught up in what I tend to think of as a kind of "spiritual egotism", and that might be reflected in this thing of charging hundreds of dollars to attend "exclusive" seminars, or whatever, but to me that doesn't detract one iota from the value of that first book of his for me, at that time.

Truth can never be captured in words. But just occasionally in our lives, if we are open to it, we encounter words which serve to remind us of the wordless truth that we have known all along. That's how I tend to see these kinds of things. :)

#6 User is offline   Desertrose Icon

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 06:23 AM

I don't think I can express the myriad of emotions that I went through listening to that.
There were a lot of "wow's" going on in my head, but also, as usual a heck of a lot of skepticism.
I immediately found his voice deeply hypnotizing, which at first gave me a comforting feeling, but later became uncomfortable especially when the 'preacher" overtones came in.
I'm so deeply uncomfortable with being part of a group who all believe the same thing, without question.
But there was a LOT in that which interested and engaged me. Must of 'cos I listened to the whole thing and now I have a numb bum.
Thanks Dan. (and Simon)
It sounds like a very enlightening book.

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 10:45 AM

I read the first book when it first came out. Basically, a guy listens to what most people would call common sense and writes it all down. Then he sells these reflections by calling them "Conversations with God." I remember being terribly jealous that I hadn't come up with the idea first! :lol: But it must have spoken to me in some way, because I read the whole thing.

View PostSimple Simon, on 20 February 2012 - 03:30 AM, said:

I seem to recall at the time that Walsh said something about writing just three books, and I remember thinking that I bet he couldn't stop at that. And sure enough, he didn't. I felt the first book pretty much said enough, and the second and third (both of which I read) felt relatively forced and a bit superfluous.


I know what you mean, Simon. In these later books, "God" starts prescribing radical political solutions to our spiritual problems. When I realized Walsch was using the book series to further his bank account and political agendas, I was furious. I knew the sorts of people who would buy the books - and buy into his philosophy as well - and most of them are unsuspecting types.

Maybe Walsch made an honest mistake. I suppose it's easy enough to confuse God's love with God's anointing. But still...a classic case of man making God in his image.

I'm not suggesting NOT reading the later books; I probably grew more from disagreeing with Walsch than I did from agreeing with him in the first book. But I definitely recommend making use of the library. You might appreciate having somewhere appropriate to discard of the books.

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 11:58 AM

View PostBruce N, on 19 February 2012 - 10:56 PM, said:

For $400 dollars and 7 weeks of your time, you too can find fulfillment in your life, answers to the daunts of your existence.

Even though God has been keeping this secret from you for all these years, for $400 bucks I can sell you some insider information, and let you know how you can take advantage of what God is offering in terms of life fulfillment, but that only a few know what are the secrets. Let me expose the 3 secrets that God will not revel to you, but chosen instead to make them exclusive to me.

Sounds like any other religious con to me. Posted Image


Yup, there is that. Financially ambitious spiritual gurus make me cringe. But then again, even though the farmer beats his ox, the corn can still taste good. :)
We have now sunk to a depth at which re-statement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men.
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The greatest tragedy in mankind's entire history may be the hijacking of morality by religion.
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#9 User is offline   Simple Simon Icon

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 12:21 PM

View Postjonie, on 21 February 2012 - 04:58 AM, said:

But then again, even though the farmer beats his ox, the corn can still taste good. :)

Now why couldn't I have been that succinct? ;) Posted Image

#10 User is offline   DannyDep Icon

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 02:40 PM

View PostSimple Simon, on 20 February 2012 - 03:30 AM, said:

...............
A couple of months ago, I received in the post a book called, "Re-Wiring the Soul". When Robyn asked me when, why and from where I'd ordered it, I honestly couldn't remember, although I had a vague recollection of some impulsive late night moment a couple of weeks prior. So anyway, I started reading it and was quite enjoying it. Like Walsh's book, I found it simply served to remind me of things that I already knew but which I all-too-often allowed myself to forget, as I got caught up in my egoic illusions of the world.
Amen Bro! :)

Quote

A week or so later I happened to be taking an early morning walk on the beach when, against all odds (or what we might think of odds... this is a beach where I would rarely see more than maybe a dozen people during a 40 minute walk) I happened to bump into my friend and asked him what he was doing. He laughed (and that was great in itself) and said, "I'm re-wiring my soul". Since then, my friend has entered a whole new phase of his life, with a whole new awareness - a whole new perspective - and it's lovely to see.

He has many times apologised for having taken so long to finish the book. He says he's still just digesting it, bit by bit and he's asked me where he can order his own copy from so he return mine. But, as silly as this might seem to some, I KNOW I bought that book for him. I don't want or need it back.
That’s the kind of story that Walsch is describing in his book that I’m currently reading “When God Steps In, Miracles Happen”.
“…I’m rewiring my soul…” Love it. :)
I relate it to undoing all of the wiring we all do as adults. We just need to remember.
As Walsch talks about in the seminar, “your growth process is finished”. Look at a baby.
It IS perfection…” (in a beautiful world ;) ) But we doubt that this can’t be true. And the doubting continues…

Quote

So yeah, Walsh might have got a bit caught up in what I tend to think of as a kind of "spiritual egotism", and that might be reflected in this thing of charging hundreds of dollars to attend "exclusive" seminars, or whatever, but to me that doesn't detract one iota from the value of that first book of his for me, at that time.
I get the feeling that he himself is not caught up in a “spiritual egotism”, but that perhaps those around him are. In the seminar he mentioned that he gives free scholarships to those who can’t afford the course. Well, I sent an email to the contact address if you were having problems signing up. I got what was obviously a canned return email showing that if you wanted a partial scholarship,… blah, blah blah. My gut tells me that this email had actually reached Mr. Walsch, I would have received a very different response.
But it does bring up an interesting question.
I wonder if The Beatles got a free trip to visit the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi during their years of fame? Sure, maybe it was a donation to the TM movement but the Maharishi needed to eat and pay his bills as well, yes?
And why do we pay doctors in order to help us with our physical as well as mental ailments at all? Sometimes I’d actually like to get my money back because the treatment didn’t help at all.
I think we separate spirituality far too much away from the other realms of being human.

Quote

Truth can never be captured in words. But just occasionally in our lives, if we are open to it, we encounter words which serve to remind us of the wordless truth that we have known all along. That's how I tend to see these kinds of things. :)
Thank you my friend. :)
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#11 User is offline   DannyDep Icon

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 02:43 PM

View PostDesertrose, on 20 February 2012 - 06:23 AM, said:

I don't think I can express the myriad of emotions that I went through listening to that.
There were a lot of "wow's" going on in my head, but also, as usual a heck of a lot of skepticism.
I immediately found his voice deeply hypnotizing, which at first gave me a comforting feeling, but later became uncomfortable especially when the 'preacher" overtones came in.
I'm so deeply uncomfortable with being part of a group who all believe the same thing, without question.
Have faith, :huh:
in yourself to see everything. :)

Quote

But there was a LOT in that which interested and engaged me. Must of 'cos I listened to the whole thing and now I have a numb bum.
Thanks Dan. (and Simon)
It sounds like a very enlightening book.
:)
Read CWG Tracy.
It will say whatever you want it to say and you will hear whatever you need to hear from it.
"The quality of life,
can only be measured by
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#12 User is offline   Bruce N Icon

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 02:43 PM

Self help, self improvement books. Though they've been around for a long time, it's only in the last 30 - 40 years that they have come into cultural prominence that they now occupy.

Where traditional psychology and psychotherapy will tend to be written in an impersonal, objective mode, many self-help books 'involve a first-person involvement and often a conversion experience, in keeping with the self-help support groups on which they often draw, horizontal peer-support and validation is thus offered the reader, as well as advice "from above".

I did listen all the way through the pod cast, it was interesting in the way Walsch began with nary a mention towards God, but near the end of the pod cast, it is quite evident how Walsch has taken modern pop psychology and wrapped it with spirituality.

Near the end of the pod cast, it in my opinion quickly took on an aural of a "paid commercial advertisement." You could register with 3 payments
of $147 = $441, or a one time payment of $397. a savings of $44 dollars.

People seem to have a natural inclination to self medicate, or in this case self analyse, while that in and of it's self can be a positive thing, there can be a number of potholes along that road.

The danger may arise however of an overestimation of the possibilities of change, given that 'we do not in any meaningful sense intend or choose our birth, our parents, our bodies, our language, our culture, our thoughts, our dreams, our desires, our death, and so on.

The 'Twelve-step "Traditions"...have fostered a notion of individual self-mastery or self-control as limited...use of the Serenity Prayer encourages individuals to accept what they cannot change, to find courage to change what they can change, and to seek wisdom in discerning the difference.

Self-help books will indeed often acknowledge formally that 'this book does not replace the need for therapy and counselling for troubled relationships or survivors of a Dysfunctional family In practice however, fuelled by competitive advertising, often 'such books hold out to the reader the promise of a virtually "instantaneous" transformation and there ensues something of a 'built-in contradiction of the celebratory arc of the self-help book combined with the stubborn realities of the human world.
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#13 User is offline   DannyDep Icon

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 02:47 PM

View Postjonie, on 20 February 2012 - 11:58 AM, said:

..................
Yup, there is that. Financially ambitious spiritual gurus make me cringe.
Anyone who puts financial ambitions in front of anything else make me cringe too. :)

Quote

But then again, even though the farmer beats his ox, the corn can still taste good. :)
Yup, and somebody has to feed the farmer and his oxen too. ;)
"The quality of life,
can only be measured by
the integrity of yourself and the friends
that take the trip with you."

Here are two of my friends,
Posted Image
here is my Soundclick page,
Soundclick webpage
here is my Facebook page,
Facebook webpate
and here is the rest.
My homepage.

#14 User is offline   DannyDep Icon

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 03:34 PM

View PostBruce N, on 20 February 2012 - 02:43 PM, said:

Self help, self improvement books. Though they've been around for a long time, it's only in the last 30 - 40 years that they have come into cultural prominence that they now occupy.

Where traditional psychology and psychotherapy will tend to be written in an impersonal, objective mode, many self-help books 'involve a first-person involvement and often a conversion experience, in keeping with the self-help support groups on which they often draw, horizontal peer-support and validation is thus offered the reader, as well as advice "from above".

I did listen all the way through the pod cast, it was interesting in the way Walsch began with nary a mention towards God, but near the end of the pod cast, it is quite evident how Walsh has taken modern pop psychology and wrapped it with spirituality.

Near the end of the pod cast, it in my opinion quickly took on an aural of a "paid commercial advertisement." You could register with 3 payments
of $147 = $441, or a one time payment of $397. a savings of $44 dollars.

People seem to have a natural inclination to self medicate, or in this case self analyse, while that in and of it's self can be a positive thing, there can be a number of potholes along that road.

The danger may arise however of an overestimation of the possibilities of change, given that 'we do not in any meaningful sense intend or choose our birth, our parents, our bodies, our language, our culture, our thoughts, our dreams, our desires, our death, and so on.

The 'Twelve-step "Traditions"...have fostered a notion of individual self-mastery or self-control as limited...use of the Serenity Prayer encourages individuals to accept what they cannot change, to find courage to change what they can change, and to seek wisdom in discerning the difference.

Self-help books will indeed often acknowledge formally that 'this book does not replace the need for therapy and counselling for troubled relationships or survivors of a Dysfunctional family In practice however, fuelled by competitive advertising, often 'such books hold out to the reader the promise of a virtually "instantaneous" transformation and there ensues something of a 'built-in contradiction of the celebratory arc of the self-help book combined with the stubborn realities of the human world.

"When the student is ready, the teacher will appear".
Yes from God but through Buddha.
I was trying to think of how to respond to your post Bruce and I went back to the introduction of CWG and found those words.
My first remark was that I was not into Self-Help books.
Would it have made any difference to your reply if I had said that i have a deep irreverence for them?
Would it have made a difference if I had said that I have the same irreverence for psychology and psychotherapy?
Would it have made any difference if I had said that at the end of the seminar there will be some dialog on anyone interested in taking a 7 week course with Mr. Walsch?
I think what we should have a natural inclination to do is to self-meditate.
And as for potholes along the way, I'll bet that some are saying to themselves, there are some pretty big sink-holes and caverns the size of cities that will be blockages along the way.

"The danger may arise however of an overestimation of the possibilities of change, given that 'we do not in any meaningful sense intend or choose our birth, our parents, our bodies, our language, our culture, our thoughts, our dreams, our desires, our death, and so on. "
We all have the possibility to change.
Show me a rich man and I'll show you a poor one.
Show me good parents and I will show you bad ones.
Show me good things in any culture and I will show you bad ones.
Yes, I do have my dreams and desires and whereas I might have given up on them before, I do see the person that I want to be.
And I realize that the Transformation isn't going to happen instantaneously. I've known for at least 5 years about that. ;)
And overcoming the biggest of pot-holes is going to help me to get there.
I do understand where you're coming from. I've been there myself.
But somehow, I think it was Simon's doing again to help someone in need.
It's what life is really all about.
Giving. :)
Peace.
"The quality of life,
can only be measured by
the integrity of yourself and the friends
that take the trip with you."

Here are two of my friends,
Posted Image
here is my Soundclick page,
Soundclick webpage
here is my Facebook page,
Facebook webpate
and here is the rest.
My homepage.

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 06:00 PM

View PostDannyDep, on 20 February 2012 - 02:47 PM, said:

Quote

But then again, even though the farmer beats his ox, the corn can still taste good. :)
Yup, and somebody has to feed the farmer and his oxen too. ;)

I give my abundant wisdom out for free. :lol:
We have now sunk to a depth at which re-statement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men.
George Orwell

The greatest tragedy in mankind's entire history may be the hijacking of morality by religion.
Arthur C. Clarke

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1 + 1 Song of the Year 2009 Ain't That True

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 12:41 AM

View PostDannyDep, on 21 February 2012 - 08:34 AM, said:

I think what we should have a natural inclination to do is to self-meditate.
Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image
Perfect, Danny! Posted Image

Yep.... if we were all to simply and regularly "self-meditate", there would be no need for "self-help" books, or self-medication, or naval gazing, or psychology or psychotherapy. It's free, it doesn't involved drugs, or buying books, or attending seminars, or believing in any religion, or joining any cult. And the truly ironic thing is that this simple message is at the heart of all these books and seminars and so forth that people pay for.

Quote

"When the student is ready, the teacher will appear".
Yes from God but through Buddha.

Yes. Something I came to understand a very long time ago (but still often tend to forget or ignore) is that no-one can learn that which they are not ready to learn. "You can lead a horse to water.......".... "Cast pearls before swine......"... etc. The interesting thing, to me, is that my relatively recent training as a teacher has helped me to understand why this is. We cannot take on a new idea or concept unless we are able to substantially relate it to prior learning/understandings/experiences. It's just the way we are wired. And yet, if we are truly open to new ideas and experiences - rather than just always holding to and falling back on the sum of our existing perspectives - "teachers" (experiences etc) tend to come into our lives to "scaffold" our consciousness, bit by bit, to different ways of seeing things.

Jonie kindly offers her wisdom for free. I'm afraid I don't have much wisdom, so I need to charge for what little I have. This next bit will cost anyone who reads it a beer and a good conversation whenever you/they might come to stay with us here in New Zealand. Oh, and you also have to say nice things about my curries... fair price? So... here it is:

- We choose our experience of life in every moment.

Actually, I can't even charge a beer for that. It's nothing new. *sigh* I might write a song instead, or invent a gadget. I understand people are generally happy to pay for such things. :)

#17 User is offline   Bruce N Icon

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 03:37 AM

Quote

"When the student is ready, the teacher will appear".
Yes from God but through Buddha.


Solace for the uninitiated.

I passed that course quite awhile ago, and the teacher has long since retired. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt.

But if that's the path that you feel is best for you, then by all means follow it, some feel it's better to travel around the mountain on their journey, I prefer going over the mountain on my quest, the view is much more reveling.

Quote

I do understand where you're coming from. I've been there myself.


Sorry Danny, if you truly understood where I'm coming from, and been to the same "there" as me, I doubt very much you would now be extolling the virtues of one Mr. Walsch, and or those of his ilk

But as I said, if it floats your boat, then by all means take the cruise.
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#18 User is offline   Simple Simon Icon

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 03:43 AM

View PostBruce N, on 21 February 2012 - 08:37 PM, said:

But if that's the path that you feel is best for you, then by all means follow it, some feel it's better to travel around the mountain on their journey, I prefer going over the mountain on my quest, the view is much more reveling.


There is no mountain. ;)

#19 User is offline   Bruce N Icon

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 04:56 AM

View PostSimple Simon, on 21 February 2012 - 02:43 AM, said:

View PostBruce N, on 21 February 2012 - 08:37 PM, said:

But if that's the path that you feel is best for you, then by all means follow it, some feel it's better to travel around the mountain on their journey, I prefer going over the mountain on my quest, the view is much more reveling.


There is no mountain. Posted Image


Yeah, "But first there is a mountain, then there is no mountain, then there is." It's all in how you perceive it. Posted Image

Hey, I think there's a book idea in that. Posted Image
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#20 User is offline   starsinmyeyes Icon

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 08:41 AM

Hi DannyDep, I was given this book many years ago and I read it cover to cover. Whilst I didn't agree with everything in the book, I did nod at a lot of it, and it gave me many months of thoughtfulness. The same person leant me the second book, but I couldn't get into it. I felt that the first book contained the essence of his 'message' and anything else was the publishers idea!

I believe there is also a dvd out now for those who don't like to read, but I haven't as yet checked it out and not sure that I will. Thanks for this thread, I just went and got my copy down off the shelf where it has sat negelected for the past 10 or so years. Maybe I'll read it again one day.

Dannydep, you have inspired me to start another thread. Thanks again.
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Posted 21 February 2012 - 11:17 AM

View Poststarsinmyeyes, on 21 February 2012 - 01:41 PM, said:

Hi DannyDep, I was given this book many years ago and I read it cover to cover. Whilst I didn't agree with everything in the book, I did nod at a lot of it, and it gave me many months of thoughtfulness. The same person leant me the second book, but I couldn't get into it. I felt that the first book contained the essence of his 'message' and anything else was the publishers idea!

I believe there is also a dvd out now for those who don't like to read, but I haven't as yet checked it out and not sure that I will. Thanks for this thread, I just went and got my copy down off the shelf where it has sat negelected for the past 10 or so years. Maybe I'll read it again one day.

Dannydep, you have inspired me to start another thread. Thanks again.


There WAS a mountain! I'm sure there was! Where has it gone? I susupect the mountain went to Mohammed. It said it would one day, but I never believed it.
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#22 User is offline   DannyDep Icon

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 10:58 PM

View PostBruce N, on 21 February 2012 - 03:37 AM, said:

...............
But as I said, if it floats your boat, then by all means take the cruise.
I hate cruises. :angry:
Unless of course you're talking about being on a Windjammer trolling in the South Pacific. :rolleyes:
Enjoy your journey as well. :)
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Posted 21 February 2012 - 11:01 PM

View PostAlistair S, on 21 February 2012 - 11:17 AM, said:

...............
There WAS a mountain! I'm sure there was! Where has it gone? I susupect the mountain went to Mohammed. It said it would one day, but I never believed it.
"Go tell it on the mountain..." :lol:
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Posted 25 April 2012 - 03:15 AM

View PostJim Colyer, on 25 April 2012 - 07:30 PM, said:

People like to draw a line between religion and spirituality. To me, they sound like the same thing.

I think they do to a lot of people, Jim. If you're ever genuinely interested, I'd be happy to attempt to explain my view of the differences between them. :)




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Posted 25 April 2012 - 12:40 PM

Jim Colyer said:

People like to draw a line between religion and spirituality. To me, they sound like the same thing.

We all have spirit - it's a natural part of being a human.
Religion is something outside of us - it's about being ruled and controlled.

One of them, personally, I can live without.
The other - being a musician - is one I have to deal with inescapably.
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#26 User is offline   DannyDep Icon

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 09:10 AM

View PostJim Colyer, on 25 April 2012 - 02:30 AM, said:

People like to draw a line between religion and spirituality. To me, they sound like the same thing.
Well, one could draw quite a wide line between both.
They don’t sound the same to me.
The biggest difference being that religion is “man-made” while spirituality, well, we all have to figure what that is for our own selves.

Quote

I have trouble with both since we live in a material, physical, natural universe.
] Perhaps it is our cultural predisposition towards science that we only view our world through our 5 senses.
Perhaps there is a much broader world that is out there that we can “see” with our sixth sense?
Or then again, perhaps it’s just a question of remembering.

Quote

Everytime I try to pray, I get claustrophobic. Everytime I go to church, I feel like I am in the Middle Ages. The Bible comes off as ancient Hebrew mythology.
I hear you Jim. :(
I really do believe that you might come to a different viewpoint about lots of things if you were to pick up Mr. Walsch’s books, Conversations with God and/or The New Revelations.
I am very grateful for Mr. Williams for pointing out the first book to me. :)


View PostLazz, on 25 April 2012 - 01:40 PM, said:

Jim Colyer said:

People like to draw a line between religion and spirituality. To me, they sound like the same thing.

We all have spirit - it's a natural part of being a human.
Religion is something outside of us - it's about being ruled and controlled.

One of them, personally, I can live without.
The other - being a musician - is one I have to deal with inescapably.
Now I see the divine lyricist in you Lazz.
Excellent dichotomy.
I would only point out that there are some good values to follow that most religions do have as their core values.
The problem with religion is that they are, for the most part, exclusive and not inclusive in their membership.
We should ALL be members of the same ONE. btw, that includes every living thing in the universe, from
Einsteins to Cockroaches, from Roses to Rocks, from the largest thing we call the Universe to the smallest Particle that we don't even yet know about.
It's all about energy and rhythm.
Did i mention that I'm crazy. :blink: Just a heads up. ;)
Carry on.
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Posted 26 April 2012 - 09:30 AM

View PostDannyDep, on 26 April 2012 - 07:10 AM, said:

View PostLazz, on 25 April 2012 - 01:40 PM, said:

Jim Colyer said:

People like to draw a line between religion and spirituality. To me, they sound like the same thing.

We all have spirit - it's a natural part of being a human.
Religion is something outside of us - it's about being ruled and controlled.

One of them, personally, I can live without.
The other - being a musician - is one I have to deal with inescapably.
Now I see the divine lyricist in you Lazz.
Excellent dichotomy.
I would only point out that there are some good values to follow that most religions do have as their core values.
The problem with religion is that they are, for the most part, exclusive and not inclusive in their membership.
We should ALL be members of the same ONE. btw, that includes every living thing in the universe, from
Einsteins to Cockroaches, from Roses to Rocks, from the largest thing we call the Universe to the smallest Particle that we don't even yet know about.
It's all about energy and rhythm.
Did i mention that I'm crazy. :blink: Just a heads up. ;)
Carry on.
Pardon me if I am incorrect but how do you divine "divine" from "We all have spirit?"

#28 User is offline   DannyDep Icon

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 06:38 PM

View Posttransmissiondown, on 26 April 2012 - 10:30 AM, said:

View PostDannyDep, on 26 April 2012 - 07:10 AM, said:

View PostLazz, on 25 April 2012 - 01:40 PM, said:

Jim Colyer said:

People like to draw a line between religion and spirituality. To me, they sound like the same thing.

We all have spirit - it's a natural part of being a human.
Religion is something outside of us - it's about being ruled and controlled.

One of them, personally, I can live without.
The other - being a musician - is one I have to deal with inescapably.
Now I see the divine lyricist in you Lazz.
Excellent dichotomy.
I would only point out that there are some good values to follow that most religions do have as their core values.
The problem with religion is that they are, for the most part, exclusive and not inclusive in their membership.
We should ALL be members of the same ONE. btw, that includes every living thing in the universe, from
Einsteins to Cockroaches, from Roses to Rocks, from the largest thing we call the Universe to the smallest Particle that we don't even yet know about.
It's all about energy and rhythm.
Did i mention that I'm crazy. :blink: Just a heads up. ;)
Carry on.
Pardon me if I am incorrect but how do you divine "divine" from "We all have spirit?"
Ah yes, i see your point.
I was also including this in my assessment.
Carinhoso - "Then"
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can only be measured by
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Post icon  Posted 28 April 2012 - 05:37 PM

View PostDannyDep, on 26 April 2012 - 04:38 PM, said:

View Posttransmissiondown, on 26 April 2012 - 10:30 AM, said:

View PostDannyDep, on 26 April 2012 - 07:10 AM, said:

View PostLazz, on 25 April 2012 - 01:40 PM, said:

Jim Colyer said:

People like to draw a line between religion and spirituality. To me, they sound like the same thing.

We all have spirit - it's a natural part of being a human.
Religion is something outside of us - it's about being ruled and controlled.

One of them, personally, I can live without.
The other - being a musician - is one I have to deal with inescapably.
Now I see the divine lyricist in you Lazz.
Excellent dichotomy.
I would only point out that there are some good values to follow that most religions do have as their core values.
The problem with religion is that they are, for the most part, exclusive and not inclusive in their membership.
We should ALL be members of the same ONE. btw, that includes every living thing in the universe, from
Einsteins to Cockroaches, from Roses to Rocks, from the largest thing we call the Universe to the smallest Particle that we don't even yet know about.
It's all about energy and rhythm.
Did i mention that I'm crazy. :blink: Just a heads up. ;)
Carry on.
Pardon me if I am incorrect but how do you divine "divine" from "We all have spirit?"
Ah yes, i see your point.
I was also including this in my assessment.
Carinhoso - "Then"

I hadn't looked at that thread, point well taken.

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