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The Collaboration Contest Rides Again Let's start again

#51 User is offline   Len Icon

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 07:00 PM

Id' just like to say thanks to everyone for getting into the spirit of this. I'm glad I'm not having to "Do the Jolene". Anyway, blame Bruce!
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Posted 21 February 2012 - 09:06 PM

Just an apology for not getting involved this time - I'm away for a few months with no way of recording and limited internet access (although I do have a lovely uke - thanks Ron!). The contest idea sounds like great fun, so I'm sad to be missing out! I'll look forward to hearing the songs :)
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Posted 22 February 2012 - 06:59 AM

Was just thinking the other day i hadn't seen you round here for ages David..
Glad things are good and you're still making lots of music ! :)

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 11:57 AM

just sent this to Graybeard..


"listen mate.. may not be able to do the contest this month... my program I record on isn't working... and my computer has decided to act like an asthmatic ant with heavy shopping... I've never bowed out of one .. but may have to :( I'm soo sorry... really am.. but maybe you can find someone else.. there is 4 weeks to go"



sorry guys and gals.. I love doing this.. but really don't want to leave it to the last minute to bow out.. but, my computer is not gonna do it.. thought that was gonna happen with Kim and I.. but I scraped through... not this time..


so sorry Graybeard.. brilliant lyric.. hope another musician can take my place..
if that can be done..

stewie

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 08:28 PM

Sorry to hear about that Stew. I hope Len has another musician on tap who might be able to fill in. There's plenty of time left and a lyric all ready to go.

Fingers crossed for Nathan.
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Posted 28 February 2012 - 03:08 PM

Well it certainly helps when your lyricist doesn't jump ship - Thanks Len!!!

Besides the Jolene scaffold prompt, I suggested another piece as "musical mood scaffold" [the Toots & The Maytalls/Willie Nelson recording of "Still is Still Moving to Me"] and Alistair sent a very nice draft of a lyric Saturday 2/18 - We then had a nice Skype session that Saturday morning - I sent him a sketch that evening and were essentially finished this last week-end - we now have about three weeks to scrutinize and second guess every word, note and sound in the song and the mix :rolleyes:
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#57 User is offline   Alistair S Icon

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 04:07 PM

View Postneuroron, on 28 February 2012 - 08:08 PM, said:

we now have about three weeks to scrutinize and second guess every word, note and sound in the song and the mix :rolleyes:


... or not! :)
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"In my opinion this is a bunch of filth and garbage and we need far less this type of lyrics gettin back in the ears of our children." - from a critique received

"When I was 5 years old, my mum always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wante to be when I grew up. I wrote down, "Happy". The told me I didn't understand the assignment and I told them they didn't understand life." John Lennon.

#58 User is offline   Len Icon

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 06:06 PM

There may yet be a white knight, but if not then Nathan you are welcome to post up your lyric when the time comes.
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Posted 28 February 2012 - 06:08 PM

View Postneuroron, on 28 February 2012 - 03:08 PM, said:

we now have about three weeks to scrutinize and second guess every word, note and sound in the song and the mix :rolleyes:


And of course, the rest of us will scrutinize it later. :)
We have now sunk to a depth at which re-statement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men.
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Posted 29 February 2012 - 09:49 PM

Bravo, Frank.

I think it's great of you to step up like this.

Looks like everything is back on track.
We have now sunk to a depth at which re-statement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men.
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The greatest tragedy in mankind's entire history may be the hijacking of morality by religion.
Arthur C. Clarke

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1 + 1 Song of the Year 2009 Ain't That True

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#61 User is offline   Len Icon

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 04:13 AM

View Postjonie, on 01 March 2012 - 03:49 AM, said:

Bravo, Frank.

I think it's great of you to step up like this.

Looks like everything is back on track.

Hear hear.

That's excellent Frank, thank you.
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Posted 01 March 2012 - 08:47 PM

Well, Len. It looks like you've devised a very interesting challenge. I'm looking forward to hearing the results. Sorry I came around too late to get involved.
Lately I'm feeling my inner dog.

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 08:50 PM

If you were around more..... :(
We have now sunk to a depth at which re-statement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men.
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Posted 01 March 2012 - 08:57 PM

View Postjonie, on 01 March 2012 - 08:50 PM, said:

If you were around more..... :(

Well hopefully that's changing. I've actually been writing some songs with WendyD and working up some material with her. We'll be performing some in the next few months and have some gigs lined up. I'll have a tune for the upcoming 1+1 and I may try to talk her into entering one also that we've written together.
Lately I'm feeling my inner dog.

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable"

"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." Hunter S. Thompson

"The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."
Hunter S. Thompson


"I pay no attention whatever to anybody's praise or blame. I simply follow my own feelings."
Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart


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#65 User is offline   Len Icon

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 04:41 PM

Good to hear from you Don :)
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#66 User is offline   Alistair S Icon

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 04:47 PM

Is it Sunday yet?

(In memory of Billy)
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"In my opinion this is a bunch of filth and garbage and we need far less this type of lyrics gettin back in the ears of our children." - from a critique received

"When I was 5 years old, my mum always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wante to be when I grew up. I wrote down, "Happy". The told me I didn't understand the assignment and I told them they didn't understand life." John Lennon.

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 04:49 PM

I miss Billy. :(

No, he's not dead, for those of you who don't know him.

But we have Gordon, now.

A Billy with a better spellcheck. :lol:
We have now sunk to a depth at which re-statement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men.
George Orwell

The greatest tragedy in mankind's entire history may be the hijacking of morality by religion.
Arthur C. Clarke

Don Martin Lyric of the Year 2008 & 2009
1 + 1 Song of the Year 2009 Ain't That True

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My lyrics and songs hosted by Lyricadia

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 09:51 AM

Gene Wilder Young Frankenstein voice - "It's Alive! It's Alive!"

That is to say we have something that sounds vaguely like a song...

#69 User is offline   Len Icon

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 10:51 AM

Two-ish weeks to go. Looking forward to all these Jolene clones :)
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Posted 05 March 2012 - 05:04 PM

Clones? Distant cousins, maybe! :)
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"In my opinion this is a bunch of filth and garbage and we need far less this type of lyrics gettin back in the ears of our children." - from a critique received

"When I was 5 years old, my mum always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wante to be when I grew up. I wrote down, "Happy". The told me I didn't understand the assignment and I told them they didn't understand life." John Lennon.

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 06:39 PM

Dolly wouldn't recognize ours if we marketed it right back to her! Once you get far enough away from the original progression, the parent melody stops nagging at you.

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 07:25 PM

They're not even related anymore.
We have now sunk to a depth at which re-statement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men.
George Orwell

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Arthur C. Clarke

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1 + 1 Song of the Year 2009 Ain't That True

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My lyrics and songs hosted by Lyricadia

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 07:48 PM

Kim has done a great job of hanging a new lyric on the Jolene scaffold, and, whatever the (de)merits of the music I've come up with, I'd be willing to bet a bottle of nice cabernet that you won't hear Dolly in it. :)
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Posted 05 March 2012 - 10:42 PM

Yeah no Dolly here. Hoping it will at least be 1 ounce the song Dolly is though...

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 02:19 AM

View PostAlistair S, on 05 March 2012 - 04:04 PM, said:

Clones? Distant cousins, maybe! :)

How about, mutations ;)
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#76 User is offline   Len Icon

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 06:07 AM

Evolutionary adaptations perhaps :)

One week to go.
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Posted 11 March 2012 - 09:19 AM

And I'm looking forward to a parade of the freakish little monsters :)
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"In my opinion this is a bunch of filth and garbage and we need far less this type of lyrics gettin back in the ears of our children." - from a critique received

"When I was 5 years old, my mum always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wante to be when I grew up. I wrote down, "Happy". The told me I didn't understand the assignment and I told them they didn't understand life." John Lennon.

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 06:50 PM

View PostAlistair S, on 11 March 2012 - 09:19 AM, said:

And I'm looking forward to a parade of the freakish little monsters Posted Image


Mark is in labour, as we speak. Posted Image Posted Image
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Posted 12 March 2012 - 01:32 AM

View PostBruce N, on 11 March 2012 - 07:50 PM, said:

View PostAlistair S, on 11 March 2012 - 09:19 AM, said:

And I'm looking forward to a parade of the freakish little monsters Posted Image


Mark is in labour, as we speak. Posted Image Posted Image


Getting over a pesky, stubborn sore throat. Might not be the best vocal performance from me.
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Posted 12 March 2012 - 09:06 AM

Yeah I wanted to re-sing some parts last night but got knocked down a bit by the usual spring pestilence that's been going around...

Freakish little monsters indeed!

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 09:53 AM

So, who'll be the first to post?
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"In my opinion this is a bunch of filth and garbage and we need far less this type of lyrics gettin back in the ears of our children." - from a critique received

"When I was 5 years old, my mum always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wante to be when I grew up. I wrote down, "Happy". The told me I didn't understand the assignment and I told them they didn't understand life." John Lennon.

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 10:55 AM

We're almost there. Should be up tonight or tomorrow.
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Posted 12 March 2012 - 11:37 AM

Len,

Should we post in this thread or another? Do you have a special template for us to use?
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Posted 12 March 2012 - 07:39 PM

View Postneuroron, on 12 March 2012 - 05:37 PM, said:

Len,

Should we post in this thread or another? Do you have a special template for us to use?

Hi Ron, as Frank has done, please post the links in this thread. I would like the teams to write a short piece on how they got from Jolene to their song, though it's not required. I think it will be interesting to read about the journey each team took.
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Posted 12 March 2012 - 10:06 PM

BROKEN

BROKEN
© 2012 – Lyrics by Kimberly Hales Kime, Music by Sharon Stepler

Broken, Broken, broken, broken
That mold they made and tried to fit me in is
Broken broken, broken, broken
And I’m breaking free to live in my own skin


When I was a little girl
Grown-up problems ruled my world
I decorated them in pretty ribbons
My innocence could find no voice
They called it quits - I had no choice
When all was divided and broken-

Crossed my t's, and dotted i's
Colored inside all their lines
Breathing stale air, and choking
My one question still remained
Was I ready for a change?
Old habits aren't so easily broken

Repeat Chorus

I want a change of scenery
Deserve new reasons to believe
That life is my gift to be opened
I'm speaking up for what is mine
I’m taking one step at a time
Freedom comes when molds are broken

Repeat chorus

Broken, broken



In building on the "Jolene" lyrical scaffold, Kim used a single two-syllable word as the hook. As in "Jolene," the first and third lines of the chorus consist of the hook repeated four times. The hook also appears twice as a tag at the end of the song. The lyric otherwise follows the structure that Len laid out for us, with one exception:


The basic structure of Jolene is:
Chorus Verse Verse Chorus Verse Chorus CHECK
The hook is used at the end of each half verse and also in the chorus. As Alistair pointed out, the hook doesn't appear at the end of the first half-verse, so we treated the structure as including only the consistently-used placement of the hook at the end of each verse
The chorus rhyme scheme is ABAB CHECK
The verse rhyme scheme is AABCCB CHECK

. On a personal note: Many thanks to my songwriting partner, Kim. :) The lyricists really had the harder part of this contest!

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#86 User is offline   neuroron Icon

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 12:39 PM

Note: The log of our work flow is below the lyric: Neuroron & Alistair S

When We’re Gone

Lyrics: Alistair Sutherland – Music: Ron Tintner ©2012, ASCAP

CHORUS:
When we’re gone, gone, gone, gone
Let's worry when we’re gone
Never too late for worry to wait
Worry when we’re gone

Everyone says it all passes by
The beat of a drum - blink of an eye
Everyone knows we’re destined to die
Making the long journey home
Too many people count off the years
Suited - booted – living in fear
Sipping on wine or a couple of beers….
Hopelessly alone

(But) Booze starts to flow - sap starts to rise
Driven along by a primitive drive
Death leads to sex and sex leads to life
Life goes on when we’re gone
Men lose their heads and girls start to smile
Cocks rule the roost and cats tread the tiles
Call in the clowns to escape for a while
The circus moves on …

CHORUS

Shut up and kiss me and take me to town
Somewhere lively with people around
Celebrate life in colour and sound
Don’t wait ‘til we’re gone
We’ll drink and laugh – dance and flirt
Heading for home you can hike up your skirt
Howl at the moon, make love in the dirt
Ooh-la-la

CHORUS

INSTRUMENTAL/SCAT BREAK

CHORUS X 2

We’ll worry when we’re gone

------------------------------------------------------

Log of Work Flow

SAT 2/18/2012 – Alistair (AS) worked on a first draft. I (RT) sent him a link to a song as a suggested "feel" – AS sent me the lyric in response; an exact match with Jolene (as a scaffold) as far as structure (V/CH/Hook Placement) and rhyme scheme. I played with it on uke – We discussed it and bounced it around in real time on Skype. When AS heard me try it on the uke, he could hear that the ABB in the verse needed an extra line, so he rewrote the lyric to give those extra lines - AABCCB became AAABCCCB. We discussed the fact that we were changing the rhyme scheme and agreed that was fine by us.

SUN 2/19/2012 – recorded first draft [drum and shaker loop, uke, LV] with some lyric revision to give more space, emailed to AS – we spoke on Skype about tempo, more breathing space, arrangement – decided that structure could use short break, followed with half verse and CH X 2. The initial recording had a reggae feel, but we both felt it pulling in more of a jazz direction and the song kind of took off at that point.

TUES 2/21/2012 – recorded new draft with discussed structure – few small lyric changes. – Instrumentation: Acoustic guitar – Tenor uke – (faux) Bari Sax - Fretless bass – Drums – percussion. Emailed to AS and we continued to email back and forth – listened and sang along to CD in car in anticipation of final vox recording. Worked on refining sax sound, drum parts, background vox.

MON 3/12/2012 – Few vox redux – Done! - Ron
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#87 User is offline   Joan Icon

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 10:51 AM

The Petals of the Rose
by John Fitzgerald and Joan Kennedy

Ch
Love is hiding, then it's climbing
Then it's flying far from where it grows
Falls apart and then it might come back again
Love is like the petals of the rose

VI
He bought me the bud of a rose
Saying, See how this flower shows
Our love is like the petals of the rose
It may look small and nothing yet
But give it time and do not fret
Our love is like the petals of the rose

V2
From a dark beating crimson heart
Comes a gift, from Mother Nature’s art
Our Love is like the petals of the rose
Soon the layers of beauty will burst
Like a ballerina well rehearsed
Our love is like the petals of the rose

Ch
Love is hiding, then it's climbing
Then it's flying far from where it grows
Falls apart and then it might come back again
Love is like the petals of the rose

V3
Feels so strong, looks so delicate
Tender couple so affectionate
Our love is like the petals of the rose
Dishes flying, shattered on the door
Petals drying, scattered on the floor
Our love is like the petals of the rose

Ch
Love is hiding, then it's climbing
Then it's flying far from where it grows
Falls apart and then he might come back again
Love is like the petals of the rose


For Petals of the Rose, John took the meter and rhyme scheme from Jolene, and also the number of verses and where the chorus occurs. The hook placement was similar but not identical to Jolene, as our hook comes twice in every 6 lines of verse but only once in the chorus. Seemed like enough was enough in that respect, especially since our hook takes a whole line and would have just eaten up the chorus.

We also thought it might be cool to have some kind of emotional link to the parent lyric, which seems simple but has a lot going on beneath the surface. The speaker in Jolene departs from the normal way to confront an "other woman" in a country song. More typical might have been "Off my husband, you whore, or this town will shun you till it's time for God to burn you." Instead of that she abjectly humbles herself before her rival. Kind of a Hail Mary pass, and we never find out if it worked. In Petals we kind of run them into the ditch in the third verse, to keep it from unrelieved sweetness. We could have had them being loving and temperate all the way through, maybe ending with a pine box piled high with roses at the cemetary. But we left them on the brink and didn't give away whether they stay together (or whether that would even be wise). So, maybe gratuitous for the challenge, but a tip of the hat to DParton's own sly ways.

#88 User is offline   ScenesFromPalacio Icon

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 03:17 PM

Surface Of The Moon

Lyrics Joan Hajduk/Music Steve Ison


Our ship is coming in again
This time we're going to make the dream come true
Sail around the cosmic bend
Leave behind the surface of the moon


Always talk of leaving here
Cold and empty atmosphere
Heartless as an August afternoon
Flowers that will never grow
People raging down below
Dying on the surface of the moon

Look the future in the eye
Justify it passing by
Time is always coming 'round too soon
Shiny orb of green and blue
Dream until the bills are due
Here upon the surface of the moon

Our ship is coming in again
This time we're going to make the dream come true
Sail around the cosmic bend
Leave behind the surface of the moon

What will our excuses be
Watching as our neighbors leave
Rising up like carnival balloons
Will we smile and toe the line
Lie and say the weather's fine
Frozen on the surface of the moon

Our ship is coming in again
This time we're going to make the dream come true
Sail around the cosmic bend
Leave behind the surface of the moon




Jonies Log for “Surface of the Moon”

The first lyric I wrote for Steve was an exact match to Jolene in terms of structure, rhyme scheme, and meter. Even the hook contained the same ee rhyme and the theme was relationship oriented.
I then wrote another which I was hoping would be significantly different in terms of theme and would offer him more room for creating a different melody – especially in the chorus.

I sent them both off and Steve came up with a quick recording of each. Though I really liked what he'd come up with for both of them, I preferred the second and so it was decided. Over the next week, I sent him a flurry of lyrical changes until I was happy with it overall.

I was willing to go further away from Jolene as far as structure and rhyme scheme if it proved too confining, but I believe Steve was able to create a melody which is in no way reminiscent of Jolene yet is still built rather strictly on it's lyrical components.

#89 User is offline   Len Icon

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 05:01 PM

It's the last day of the contest and the team statuses are:

Team 1 Bruce and FunkDaddy
Team 2 Mr Fitz and Joan - IN
Team 3 Graybeard and AMereHobbyist - IN
Team 4 Jonie and Scenes from Palacio - IN
Team 5 Starsinmyeyes and Scotto
Team 6 Kimblerlyinnc and Scubed - IN
Team 7 AlistairS and Neuroron - IN
Great to see the results of all these creative endeavours :)

So, just teams 1 and 5 to post. Less than a day left folks... If anyone will be late please let me know, otherwise I may just plough ahead with the scoring. Wait for me to declare the contest closed before you send in any scores folks.



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#90 User is offline   Scotto Icon

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 05:08 PM

I will be wrapping up this evening so I should be ontime...

#91 User is offline   FunkDaddy Icon

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 05:52 PM

View PostFunkDaddy, on 12 March 2012 - 02:32 AM, said:

View PostBruce N, on 11 March 2012 - 07:50 PM, said:

View PostAlistair S, on 11 March 2012 - 09:19 AM, said:

And I'm looking forward to a parade of the freakish little monsters Posted Image


Mark is in labour, as we speak. Posted Image Posted Image


Getting over a pesky, stubborn sore throat. Might not be the best vocal performance from me.


That turned into a particularly nasty flu. As I explained to Bruce earlier in the week, the week I had free to work on the song ended up being the week I came down with the worst virus I've picked up in years and years. I can't even remember the last time I was sick to this degree. I'm just now getting over it and my voice is still recovering (having to be on the phone at work quite a bit did me no favors)

With more apologies to Bruce, I simply won't be able to get this one done in time even with an extension (and even if my voice would come back) as this week sees me back in my other studio (photography) quite a bit and at my real job whenever I'm not.

Sorry everybody.
Mark
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Always up for a collaboration with lyricists!

#92 User is offline   Scotto Icon

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 08:07 PM

Tin Man
By Stars and Scotto Inc.

Tin Man, Tin Man That's all I am
Buckled and bent, fallen apart I'm broken
Tin Man, Tin man with frozen hands
When You rebuild, Don't forget my heart


I was strong of flesh and blood
Before I took a shine to love
But time saw me decline into a tin man such a thin man

I'm no good to anyone
All my zest for life is gone
My chest echoes sorrow of a Tin Man of a thin man

Tin Man, Tin Man That's all I am
Buckled and bent, fallen apart I'm broken
Tin Man, Tin man with frozen hands
When You rebuild, Don't forget my heart


My Tarnished Face wears no expression
You'll walk away with the impression
That you're in the presence of a Tin Man such a thin man

If I could change how I feel
I'd be a man of steel

Tin Man, Tin Man That's all I am
Buckled and bent, fallen apart I'm broken
Tin Man, Tin man with frozen hands
When You rebuild, Don't forget my heart


Stars gave me some great lyrics based on the structure of Joline. I did everything I could to NOT listen to the song at all. I then took Stars lyrics and set about setting them to music. Staying with the theme at first I threw in a dramatic bridge of sorts and also a little guitar solo (simplistic). My initial version was all very much in my upper register (sorry Stars) and I did a revision to bring the verses down a bit for some variation in the song. Stars liked the upper register stuff but after a cold, allergies (spring), and an attempt to remove the bridge thus getting everything out of whack in the DAW, I've decided to stick with the second revision. If I had to do it over again I'd tune the guitars down a half step and so that its a little more comfortable in my range. These are timed contests and every song has its sorted story of trials and tribulations I'm sure. In the end I think Stars and Scotto Inc. have put out another descent song!

...Don't forget my heart...

#93 User is offline   jonie Icon

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 09:33 PM

I'm thoroughly blown away by all of these. Great job, everyone. Such diversity both lyrically and musically. I can't even begin to know how I'm going to separate them for scoring.

All I can say is....Wow!

Jolene who? :)
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#94 User is offline   Joan Icon

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 11:27 PM

Mark, I'm so sorry. I hope you can finish up and enter it in another comp at a better and healthier time. This has to be a hard one to miss, I'd have hated to have to withdraw.

I need to listen to all the entries several more times, which will be pure pleasure.

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 11:37 PM

Mark, I hope you are fully recovered soon. So sorry to hear about your illness and its rotten timing!
"First we sing, then we understand." -- Rabbi Abraham Joshua Heschel

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#96 User is offline   Len Icon

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 06:16 AM

Sorry to hear Mark and Bruce but that's life I guess.

I'll come back tonight and post up the scoring method and I'll strip out the posts in between the music posts to make it easier to get around the thread.

Bruce, if you want to post up your lyric to show us what you created please go ahead.
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Posted 19 March 2012 - 12:51 PM

Wow! I’ve just had a listen to these and I’m still smiling :D - What a great bunch of songs!
I won’t comment on any specifically at the mo because I’m not sure whether or not you are having a vote.

Well done to Len for a brilliantly inspirational and fun idea, I’m only sorry I wasn’t part of it - must keep my diary clear for the next one :)

#98 User is offline   Alistair S Icon

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 02:53 PM

Just had a chance to listen to them all (I've been travelling).

What a great bunch! Voting is going to be tricky, I think :)
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#99 User is offline   Len Icon

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 04:56 AM

Righty-ho, time for scoring. I appreciate that this challenge may have been quite tricky but I hope it's taken everyone on an interesting journey. As always we come out with a bunch of brand new songs and new songwriting teams.

Please give each song a score between 1 and 10, half marks allowed, by the end of Sat 24th March and I'll announce the winners on the Sunday. Everyone must vote please.

The teams are:

Team 2 Mr Fitz and Joan - link
Team 3 Graybeard and AMereHobbyist - link
Team 4 Jonie and Scenes from Palacio - link
Team 5 Starsinmyeyes and Scotto - link
Team 6 Kimblerlyinnc and Scubed - link
Team 7 AlistairS and Neuroron - link

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#100 User is offline   ScenesFromPalacio Icon

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 05:11 AM

Is voting open to non participants as well Len ?

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