[feegis]

Well.........it has been an interesting experience here at the Muse's Muse. Now it's time to move on.

Best Regards,
Feegis

[bernabby]

Bruce N, on 08 February 2012 - 12:33 AM, said:

bernabby, on 07 February 2012 - 10:36 PM, said:

Tell you what. I'll answer your questions as soon as you answer mine that I asked before Lazz answered for you.

Ah jeez Bern, you do know that I'm paying him the big bucks to speak for me eh!

But alright, just excuse me for a few minutes while I go find that question of yours.

Ah yes, here we go, oh by the way I thought Lazz was way to diplomatic with his answer, but whatever.

The magenta colour text are my comments.

Quote

Do you know there are far many more crimes that have been prevented by guns than there are crimes committed by guns? (Do you have citations for this claim ? ) Let's start with FBI stats of 2 million crimes per year thwarted by the use of show of guns. Buy John Lott's book, More Guns, Less Crime and you will be stunned at how guns save lives. Guns are not the problem people like the ows crowd are. ( Agreed, you know how hard it is get their blood stains off the concrete. ) ( Ah yes, here's your question. ) Let me ask you something. You are leaving this world suddenly and you have only 10 seconds to choose a complete stranger to take care of your child. You only have 2 choices. Some random ows protestor or me, a gun right advocate. No cheating. Be honest.

Well my "knee jerk" answer would be, that at such a protest gathering, it would mostly depend on whether you were the one that was holding the gun to the back of head or not.

But giving it serious thought with equal portions of rational considerations, I'd have to go with the OWS stranger, sorry Bern. Poor kid.

I'm not against people owning hunting rifles or shotguns, but when it comes to handguns, semi and automatic guns, assault rifles, well those guns are designed to do one thing, and only one thing, and that is to kill another human being. No, their purpose is for self defense. I hope you have been keeping up with the crime trends. There are far fewer bank robberies these days but a huge increase in home invasion crimes. Most are extremly violent. I also suspect that most are in homes where there are no self defense preparations.
Only a violent person would consider owning a gun for purposes other then hunting game, it only stands to reason if you were to own and openly carry an semi automatic assault rifle, you would have no qualms in shooting a fellow human being. That's painting with a very biased brush don't you think. If, as you suggest, only violent people own guns (other than for hunting) don't you think we would be a more violent society? After all, I believe people own more than 50 million guns. I'm sure not all of them own just hunting guns.
Violence = abuse, and no way would I set a child of mine up for potential abuse, in fact I wouldn't allow my child within a 12x scope sight of you.

I'm sure Gabrielle Giffords would agree with me. Wasn't a gun owner responsible for bringing this tragedy to an end?




I hope that answers your question.

Fair enough. Do you know a large portion of the ows protestors were teachers? May I direct you to my topic about perverts and teachers? Got an early softball game (6 pm) so I've got to scoot. I'll answer the rest later tonight.

[jonie]

feegis, on 08 February 2012 - 03:22 PM, said:

Well.........it has been an interesting experience here at the Muse's Muse. Now it's time to move on.

Best Regards,
Feegis

feegis, I wholeheartedly believe that you are making the wrong decision. As lyricist and reasonable and level-headed debater here in off-topic, I consider you a great asset. I don't want to see you leave.

I'm not sure if it was the image Simon posted which "broke the camel's back" for you. And I know that at first glance that image might appear to suggest disrespect for Christians but knowing Simon as I do, I know he would never intentionally do that as he has no such disrespect in him.

I don't regard you as the sort of Christian who has turned his back on the teachings of Jesus. The image Simon posted was appropriate, I feel, in pointing out the ironic and ridiculous position of gun advocate that some fundamentalist, right-wing Christians have placed Jesus in. I'm certain that Jesus would be appalled at this association and I believe you probably feel the same way.

Please don't read anything more into it than that. If that was not the reason you have decided to leave us, perhaps you can let us know why. Yes, we may disagree politically but I personally have nothing but respect and admiration for you.

Please reconsider.

[jonie]

bernabby, on 08 February 2012 - 08:03 PM, said:

Fair enough. Do you know a large portion of the ows protestors were teachers? May I direct you to my topic about perverts and teachers? Got an early softball game (6 pm) so I've got to scoot. I'll answer the rest later tonight.

OWS protesters are largely students or at least they're the majority demographic.

When I first moved to Virginia a builder/developer had bought up a large parcel of land above where I lived. He put up over two dozen homes before he was arrested for child pornography.

Surely that must mean all builder/developers are child porn perverts

Hey, aren't you a home construction builder?

This softball game? It wouldn't involve coaching young kids would it?

[bernabby]

jonie, on 08 February 2012 - 05:47 PM, said:

bernabby, on 08 February 2012 - 08:03 PM, said:

Fair enough. Do you know a large portion of the ows protestors were teachers? May I direct you to my topic about perverts and teachers? Got an early softball game (6 pm) so I've got to scoot. I'll answer the rest later tonight.

OWS protesters are largely students or at least they're the majority demographic.

When I first moved to Virginia a builder/developer had bought up a large parcel of land above where I lived. He put up over two dozen homes before he was arrested for child pornography.

Surely that must mean all builder/developers are child porn perverts

Hey, aren't you a home construction builder?

This softball game? It wouldn't involve coaching young kids would it?

Let's see, musers like Simon and jonie can post insulting Christian pictures or insinuate that I am a pedophile
and get away with it because they have carte blanche to take whatever liberties they wish. But if I respond with personal attacks like calling Simon a hateful bigot or jonie an evil witch I'm the one who gets the pm censuring my responses.

[bernabby]

Bruce N, on 07 February 2012 - 06:03 AM, said:

bernabby, on 06 February 2012 - 05:16 PM, said:

Well, I am speaking from personal experience because my everday work virtually always puts me in direct contact with an ows type. You know the ones with signs at the bottom of freeway offramps saying will work for food or homeless can you spare a quarter (whatever happened to the dime?).

Just curious Bernabby, these people that you look down on, have you ever taken the time to talk to one of them? Or find out why they may be on the street, or homeless? Would you ever consider, to see if you could in someway try to help one of them ? To advocate for one of them ? Yes, as a matter of fact, I once hired one some years ago. I gave him a box of some 40 large trash bags to fill with fall leaves. I offered him 50 cents per bag and there were enough leaves to fill 100 bags. After 2 hours he said he was finished. Great, I thought he needed some more bags. I counted 4 bags - he said he needed a break to buy some cigarettes and asked for his 2 bucks. Surprise, surprise he never returnd and I never hired those people again.Did you know it's a proven fact that 2/3's of these so called street/homeless people, regardless of whichever city they may reside in, are people who have mental health problems and issues, they're neither alcoholic nor drug dependent, and of the many reasons that they are on the street is they have no idea they should be seeking medical care, or for that matter how to, or in far too many cases the unavailability of health care for them, even with the help of an advocate on their behalf. I might have been convinced with your 2/3 exaggeration until you threw in that nonsense about the great majority not being boozers or druggies. You must not be hanging around many 7-11's - offer them 2 hot dogs or 1 can of beer and beer wins every time.
From many of your postings, I'm left with the assumption that you consider yourself to be a very Christian person, a believer of the Bible, so in that light do you believe that if Christ were alive and here in the present, he would more then likely be on those same street corners trying to help these people? Just as he would have often aided the very same people 2000 years ago in his time on Earth. The same ones you choose look down upon and spit on, today. He was already on that corner when he told them instead of giving them a fish to eat for a day he would show them how to fish so they could feed themselves.
Was that not his message to all good Christians, to seek out the disadvantage and try to help them ?

Or are you, what I would call a fake Christian? One who loves to "talk the talk, but never walk the walk." And by the way, throwing a couple coins in a collection plate every Sunday doesn't count.

Well, since you have already passed judgment on me it matters not what I say.

[Alistair S]

bernabby, on 09 February 2012 - 05:11 AM, said:

Let's see, musers like Simon and jonie can post insulting Christian pictures or insinuate that I am a pedophile and get away with it because they have carte blanche to take whatever liberties they wish.

Except that Jonie wasn't insinuating that you are a paedophile. She was pointing out the absurdity of this argument by using the same logic on you ..

"Do you know a large portion of the ows protestors were teachers? May I direct you to my topic about perverts and teachers?"

Simon's picture is fine in the same way that this one is.

[Simple Simon]

jonie, on 09 February 2012 - 01:39 PM, said:

I don't regard you as the sort of Christian who has turned his back on the teachings of Jesus. The image Simon posted was appropriate, I feel, in pointing out the ironic and ridiculous position of gun advocate that some fundamentalist, right-wing Christians have placed Jesus in. I'm certain that Jesus would be appalled at this association and I believe you probably feel the same way.

Please don't read anything more into it than that. If that was not the reason you have decided to leave us, perhaps you can let us know why. Yes, we may disagree politically but I personally have nothing but respect and admiration for you.

Please reconsider.

Thanks for that, Jonie.

Feegis, I hope you understand that what Jonie states is completely accurate. My point was to illustrate the utter absurdity of those who somehow attempt to align the right to bare arms with Christ's teachings.

Like Jonie, I like and respect you, and I especially appreciate your ability to take a measured, thoughtful and balanced approach to ideas and opinions that differ from your own. I sincerely hope your comment about moving on was not related to my post, and I would be saddened if it was.

[Simple Simon]

bernabby, on 09 February 2012 - 05:11 PM, said:

Let's see, musers like Simon and jonie can post insulting Christian pictures...

I'm interested to know how you might consider that picture "insulting", Bernabby. You claim to be a Christian. You claim to think that personal gun ownership is a good thing. All the picture does is to depict Jesus as having similar views to your own. If it shows how absurd and hypocritical such views are, then it has served its purpose. If you still find it "insulting", I'm afraid you don't, and quote possibly never will, understand it.

[bernabby]

Alistair S, on 08 February 2012 - 10:43 PM, said:

bernabby, on 09 February 2012 - 05:11 AM, said:

Let's see, musers like Simon and jonie can post insulting Christian pictures or insinuate that I am a pedophile and get away with it because they have carte blanche to take whatever liberties they wish.

Except that Jonie wasn't insinuating that you are a paedophile. Did you read her post or did you read what you wanted to read in her post? Well I got the message that that was exactly what she was insinuating. She is a favorite among the monitors so she gets a pass. It's quite obvious the number of times she puts her filthy foot in her mouth without admonition that she is beyond reproach.
She was pointing out the absurdity of this argument by using the same logic on you ..Really now. I thought you had a bit of fairness. Guess I was wrong. When you personalize the comparison it is not an argurment but a libeleous attack.
"Do you know a large portion of the ows protestors were teachers? May I direct you to my topic about perverts and teachers?" If I am factually wrong about what comprised this crowd or if I am factually wrong about this teacher perversion incident then call me on my facts. If not, I stand by my comments.Simon's picture is fine in the same way that this one is. Ok, so if I post a picture of Muhammad strapping a boy with a bomb that's ok too. What a hypocrite. Anything offensive to Christians is fair game. What has Christianity have to do with the ows discussion?. Why do atheists always retreat to insulting Christianity when they are taking a beating in the debate? This is an ows dicussion not a religious one. It is the likes of Simon who thinks it is clever to take cheap shots at Christians because he lacks the intellectual capacity to advance any coherent thoughts on the subject matter.

I understand your personal interest in defending jonie. Suppose I posted this in public: I know smokers who use the lure of cigaretts to attract young boys to perform oral sex in exchange for a cigarette. Alistair, arent' you a smoker? You know guitar players give lessons in order to play with young boys. Alistair, don't you play guitar? If you're not offended then we see things much differently. End of converstaion. None of what I said left the impression that Bruce might be a pedophile. My comments were directed at the ows crowd.

[bernabby]

Simple Simon, on 08 February 2012 - 11:01 PM, said:

bernabby, on 09 February 2012 - 05:11 PM, said:

Let's see, musers like Simon and jonie can post insulting Christian pictures...

I'm interested to know how you might consider that picture "insulting", Bernabby. You claim to be a Christian. You claim to think that personal gun ownership is a good thing. All the picture does is to depict Jesus as having similar views to your own. If it shows how absurd and hypocritical such views are, then it has served its purpose. If you still find it "insulting", I'm afraid you don't, and quote possibly never will, understand it.

Are you speaking for Jesus, Simon? I must have missed the part about that picture as being a hypocritical and absurd representation of Jesus. I would have surprised if you expressed regret for posting that picture. It would have shown some humility in recognizing a mistake but that's asking for the impossible.

[Bruce N]

Ok ladies and gentlemen, let's take a bit of a breather here, no one likes a spirited debate with some humour thrown in for good measure better then I.

So lets stick to the topic and cut down on the personalizations, (includes me) I want facts, verified facts, and if they so happen to support your side of the argument, all the better.

Thanks.
Bruce

[feegis]

Hey Jonie,

I do truly appreciate the kind thoughts.

Yes, Simon's entire post set me off to writing, and, as is probably apparent, brevity is not my strong point. I admit I get far too wrapped up in some of these threads, and being that it doesn't pay the bills, it's not necessarily time well spent. So, instead of writing the long, drawn-out post I could feel coming, I stopped myself and responded with what may have been my shortest post ever.

I do enjoy spirited discussion, and I especially appreciate the thoughtful, up-front, sincere contributions, even of opinions most opposed to mine. For the most part, though, I have to do a better job of regulating the time I spend, as some posts just don't let me simply skim past. I think we all understand how that can be - that's kind of why we gravitate to these discussions. Still, regulating my involvement, clearly, is on me, and something I intend to do more prudently moving forward.

I thoroughly enjoy the lyrics contests and some of the other threads throughout this site, so, no, I don't want to cut myself off from them. I'll just take a different approach.

Thanks for the post, Jonie.

Best Regards,
Feegis

[jonie]

bernabby, on 09 February 2012 - 03:03 AM, said:

I understand your personal interest in defending jonie. Suppose I posted this in public: I know smokers who use the lure of cigaretts to attract young boys to perform oral sex in exchange for a cigarette. Alistair, arent' you a smoker? You know guitar players give lessons in order to play with young boys. Alistair, don't you play guitar? If you're not offended then we see things much differently. End of converstaion. None of what I said left the impression that Bruce might be a pedophile. My comments were directed at the ows crowd.

I don't mean to beat a dying horse here (subject wise) but bernabby, did you ever stop to consider the fact that we have more than few teachers here on the Muse?

Let me remind you of your statement:

Quote

Do you know a large portion of the ows protestors were teachers? May I direct you to my topic about perverts and teachers?

I believe you owe an apology to Simple Simon, MrFitz, daddio, bubblingsoul, and Sataninventedbras (all of them teachers) for drawing a very straight line between a few pedophiles in a public school system in LA and ALL public school teachers.

The post of mine you blew a gasket over was made to point out, as simply and concretely as I could, how utterly ridiculous it is to make these sorts of leaps. What surprises me most is how you can get so upset when the comparison is made about you or your profession yet you see nothing wrong with doing it to others.

I think that's very hypocritical of you.

[jonie]

feegis,

I'm very pleased.

[bernabby]

jonie, on 09 February 2012 - 06:36 PM, said:

bernabby, on 09 February 2012 - 03:03 AM, said:

I understand your personal interest in defending jonie. Suppose I posted this in public: I know smokers who use the lure of cigaretts to attract young boys to perform oral sex in exchange for a cigarette. Alistair, arent' you a smoker? You know guitar players give lessons in order to play with young boys. Alistair, don't you play guitar? If you're not offended then we see things much differently. End of converstaion. None of what I said left the impression that Bruce might be a pedophile. My comments were directed at the ows crowd.

I don't mean to beat a dying horse here (subject wise) but bernabby, did you ever stop to consider the fact that we have more than few teachers here on the Muse?

Let me remind you of your statement:

Quote

Do you know a large portion of the ows protestors were teachers? May I direct you to my topic about perverts and teachers?

I believe you owe an apology to Simple Simon, MrFitz, daddio, bubblingsoul, and Sataninventedbras (all of them teachers) for drawing a very straight line between a few pedophiles in a public school system in LA and ALL public school teachers.

The post of mine you blew a gasket over was made to point out, as simply and concretely as I could, how utterly ridiculous it is to make these sorts of leaps. What surprises me most is how you can get so upset when the comparison is made about you or your profession yet you see nothing wrong with doing it to others.

I think that's very hypocritical of you. Well, that's where your problems all begin - you think with your big mouth.

Doesn't surprise me that you're surprised. It would not bother me if you took a shot at my profession in general. No, that was not enough you had to personalize your venom. My comments spoke to a category rather to any individuala, You, obviously, don't know the difference because you are so consumed with hate for anyone who doesn't share your points of view. You have made this an intentional personal vendetta against me. If that what makes your day it has made my day even better.

[jonie]

I give up with you bernabby.

If it pleases you to think and believe the way you do, who am I to try and change your mind about anything?

I have no hate. I have no venom. I'm simply tired of you and a bit disgusted right now.

[Scotto]

I'm not even sure Bernaby is real at this point. I'm going to join Feegis and TRY to steer clear of these threads. Most of these threads are derailed by sweeping generalizations and hyperbole anyway...

Peace...

[Bruce N]

And so ends this thread.

This thread is now locked and closed