Muse's Muse Songwriting Message Board: Microphone Shopping - Muse's Muse Songwriting Message Board

Jump to content

Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Microphone Shopping

#1 User is offline   shanonlee Icon

  • Contributing Muse
  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 49
  • Joined: 13-April 10
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:USA
  • Interests:Singing, Songwriting

Posted 13 April 2010 - 10:16 AM

I just bought an Electro Voice N/D 767a after being assured it is better than the Shure SM 58. This is only the 2nd mic I have purchased for performance and I hope that is the case. Any experiences with this mic you can share?

Thanks,
Shanon Lee
theshanonlee.com

#2 User is offline   FunkDaddy Icon

  • Ph.D Drumology
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 4,135
  • Joined: 24-November 03
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Canadia

Posted 14 April 2010 - 07:48 PM

Lots of good reviews on that mic it seems. Since you already bought it, try it out and see how it works out.
Mark
SoundCloud
Facebook
YouTube


Always up for a collaboration with lyricists!

#3 User is offline   shanonlee Icon

  • Contributing Muse
  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 49
  • Joined: 13-April 10
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:USA
  • Interests:Singing, Songwriting

Posted 14 April 2010 - 11:04 PM

Thanks. With me, I go in the music store - ask for one thing and come out with another! :rolleyes: I'm sure it will be fine.

View PostSusan R, on 14 April 2010 - 12:09 PM, said:

I'm not familiar with that mic, but if it makes your music sound better and fits your style it is a good buy. Music is such an individual thing ans as such there are no definites. Just what is best for you.

Shanon Lee
theshanonlee.com

#4 User is offline   shanonlee Icon

  • Contributing Muse
  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 49
  • Joined: 13-April 10
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:USA
  • Interests:Singing, Songwriting

Posted 14 April 2010 - 11:05 PM

Will do. Glad to hear it has good reviews. I just listened to the salesman spiel...gets me almost every time.

View PostFunkDaddy, on 14 April 2010 - 07:48 PM, said:

Lots of good reviews on that mic it seems. Since you already bought it, try it out and see how it works out.

Shanon Lee
theshanonlee.com

#5 User is offline   weirdrelatives Icon

  • valerie cox
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 2,189
  • Joined: 22-January 02
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Texas

Posted 15 April 2010 - 10:28 AM

I haven't heard that particular EV mic, but it did get lots of good reviews. I'd love to hear a sample.

Back in my gigging days I wouldn't have traded my 58 for the world. That doesn't mean there aren't better mics out there, but you can drive nails with the 58, and it'll still sound like it did brand new. :P
My Fierce Summer ALBUM is available at valeriecox.bandcamp.com
Friend me on facebook: Valerie Cox
The Challenged Songwriter Blog

#6 User is offline   Lzi Icon

  • Angelz Reign Productions
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 1,813
  • Joined: 19-April 05
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:A sea of Zen!
  • Interests:Wow...Everything lol...Music of course :)...I love my family. We love to travel.

    "From one thing know Ten-Thousand things">----------Miyamoto Musashi

Posted 15 April 2010 - 11:24 AM

Hi shanonlee

I have used this mic before but, not for vocals, to record toms. Dynamic mics can sound very nice for recording vocals. The trick is to use a preamp that'll allow you to set the impedance rather than using a fixed impedance more suited for condensor mics. My secret weapon preamp for getting the most out of dynamic microphones (I can't believe I'm posting this here) is a Summit Audio 2BA-221.

With this preamp you can fine tune the sound of a dynamic mic. World class vocals can be (and have been) recorded using a dynamic mic and this preamp. @$629 it's not cheap but not exactly what I would call expensive when it comes to preamps. This mic preamp is a true gem. Here's a link:

http://www.sweetwate.../detail/2BA221/

What's wrong with an SM58? Not exactly my first choice of mics to put on a female vocalist but, no dynamic would be.
If you'd like to check out a great dynamic microphone look into a Shure SM7B. First mic I put up on a female vocalist is my vintage AKG C414B TLII (reissued as the XLII but, it's NOT the same). The newer version XLII is pretty good but, it's definately not the same. They say it has the same capsule, which is what makes the TLII such a prized vocal microphone but, while it may be the same according to specs, this does not mean that something has not changed in the manufactuering process. You could check into an AKG C12 clone, which is the mic that shares the same capsule as the TLII. The C-12 is legendary...Incredible sounding ESPECIALLY on female vocalists. @ around $20k IF you can locate one. You have definately heard a C-12 before many times on the radio. The absolute best copy of it I have ever heard is made by a company called Advanced Audio (CM-12 SE $849)...here's a link to the mic (sounds like fine silk! GORGEOUS):

http://www.aamicroph..._mics/cm_12.htm

Another version is available for $695 but it has a different capsule, and I haven't heard this version of the CM 12 as of yet.

Another very nice vocal mic made by Advanced Audio is a copy of a Neumann U87 (ben copied MANY times but this one is on target). Not bad for $379 considering a U87 goes for TEN times this much! This will give you that pop vocal sound in spade cards.

Here's a link to the CM-87

http://www.aamicroph..._mics/cm_87.htm

One more mic worth considering from Advanced Audio is their AKG C414 copy (sounds ridiculously close to my TLII more so than AKG's reissue IMHO:

http://www.aamicroph...mics/cm_414.htm

Also priced@ $379

Remember, as a vocalist your instrument is the combined sound of your voice, your microphone, and your preamp. You can go the cheap route and do OK but, it's just like cheap guitars, they can play great (or maybe not so great lol) but, sound quite lackluster. Step up to a quality guitar and the sonic difference can be amazing! Same thing with a mic&preamp. Go cheap, and it may sound OK but, get some great gear and WHAM there's that vocal sound you've chased your whole life!
"Digital? is that the thing where they take a good old sine wave and chop it into bits?"
---Rupert Neve

ANGELz REIGN Productions

#7 User is offline   shanonlee Icon

  • Contributing Muse
  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 49
  • Joined: 13-April 10
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:USA
  • Interests:Singing, Songwriting

Posted 15 April 2010 - 07:14 PM

That's funny. Haven't had a chance to use the mic yet, but was told it is better than the 58 in terms of handling noise and cuts off less of the high note range. I've been a studio rat, I'm just starting to collect performance gear again.

View Postweirdrelatives, on 15 April 2010 - 10:28 AM, said:

I haven't heard that particular EV mic, but it did get lots of good reviews. I'd love to hear a sample.

Back in my gigging days I wouldn't have traded my 58 for the world. That doesn't mean there aren't better mics out there, but you can drive nails with the 58, and it'll still sound like it did brand new. :P

Shanon Lee
theshanonlee.com

#8 User is online   Alistair S Icon

  • A Muse's Muse
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 12,811
  • Joined: 18-May 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Reading, Berkshire, UK

Posted 15 April 2010 - 07:16 PM

I've never used one to my knowledge, Shannon. However, I have heard that it is a good mic for live use. It is hypercardioid, I think .. which has good and bad aspects to it.

Are you looking to record with it as well?

Different mics will sound better or worse on different voices, so choosing one that suits your voice is the key.

I guess the real question is .. how do you like it?
My Soundclick Music Page
My Facebook Music Page

"In my opinion this is a bunch of filth and garbage and we need far less this type of lyrics gettin back in the ears of our children." - from a critique received

"When I was 5 years old, my mum always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wante to be when I grew up. I wrote down, "Happy". The told me I didn't understand the assignment and I told them they didn't understand life." John Lennon.

#9 User is offline   shanonlee Icon

  • Contributing Muse
  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 49
  • Joined: 13-April 10
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:USA
  • Interests:Singing, Songwriting

Posted 16 April 2010 - 07:37 AM

I bought it for performance, but I am going to use it for recording too. I record scratch vocals and radio drops at home. Taking it out the box today. So, I will let you know. :)

View PostAlistair S, on 15 April 2010 - 07:16 PM, said:

I've never used one to my knowledge, Shannon. However, I have heard that it is a good mic for live use. It is hypercardioid, I think .. which has good and bad aspects to it.

Are you looking to record with it as well?

Different mics will sound better or worse on different voices, so choosing one that suits your voice is the key.

I guess the real question is .. how do you like it?

Shanon Lee
theshanonlee.com

#10 User is offline   shanonlee Icon

  • Contributing Muse
  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 49
  • Joined: 13-April 10
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:USA
  • Interests:Singing, Songwriting

Posted 16 April 2010 - 07:40 AM

So much information! Thank you. I will check those links and keep this information for future reference.

View PostLzi, on 15 April 2010 - 11:24 AM, said:

Hi shanonlee

I have used this mic before but, not for vocals, to record toms. Dynamic mics can sound very nice for recording vocals. The trick is to use a preamp that'll allow you to set the impedance rather than using a fixed impedance more suited for condensor mics. My secret weapon preamp for getting the most out of dynamic microphones (I can't believe I'm posting this here) is a Summit Audio 2BA-221.

With this preamp you can fine tune the sound of a dynamic mic. World class vocals can be (and have been) recorded using a dynamic mic and this preamp. @$629 it's not cheap but not exactly what I would call expensive when it comes to preamps. This mic preamp is a true gem. Here's a link:

http://www.sweetwate.../detail/2BA221/

What's wrong with an SM58? Not exactly my first choice of mics to put on a female vocalist but, no dynamic would be.
If you'd like to check out a great dynamic microphone look into a Shure SM7B. First mic I put up on a female vocalist is my vintage AKG C414B TLII (reissued as the XLII but, it's NOT the same). The newer version XLII is pretty good but, it's definately not the same. They say it has the same capsule, which is what makes the TLII such a prized vocal microphone but, while it may be the same according to specs, this does not mean that something has not changed in the manufactuering process. You could check into an AKG C12 clone, which is the mic that shares the same capsule as the TLII. The C-12 is legendary...Incredible sounding ESPECIALLY on female vocalists. @ around $20k IF you can locate one. You have definately heard a C-12 before many times on the radio. The absolute best copy of it I have ever heard is made by a company called Advanced Audio (CM-12 SE $849)...here's a link to the mic (sounds like fine silk! GORGEOUS):

http://www.aamicroph..._mics/cm_12.htm

Another version is available for $695 but it has a different capsule, and I haven't heard this version of the CM 12 as of yet.

Another very nice vocal mic made by Advanced Audio is a copy of a Neumann U87 (ben copied MANY times but this one is on target). Not bad for $379 considering a U87 goes for TEN times this much! This will give you that pop vocal sound in spade cards.

Here's a link to the CM-87

http://www.aamicroph..._mics/cm_87.htm

One more mic worth considering from Advanced Audio is their AKG C414 copy (sounds ridiculously close to my TLII more so than AKG's reissue IMHO:

http://www.aamicroph...mics/cm_414.htm

Also priced@ $379

Remember, as a vocalist your instrument is the combined sound of your voice, your microphone, and your preamp. You can go the cheap route and do OK but, it's just like cheap guitars, they can play great (or maybe not so great lol) but, sound quite lackluster. Step up to a quality guitar and the sonic difference can be amazing! Same thing with a mic&preamp. Go cheap, and it may sound OK but, get some great gear and WHAM there's that vocal sound you've chased your whole life!

Shanon Lee
theshanonlee.com

#11 Guest_go-round_*

  • Group: Guests

Posted 16 April 2010 - 10:30 AM

Which one is more expensive? Do you trust the people at your music store? Maybe they just wanted to make more money.

No, I'm kidding with you. They are pretty close in price anyways. Please let us know if you end up liking the mic. It'd be cool if you could borrow an SM58 and compare the two.

#12 User is offline   Lzi Icon

  • Angelz Reign Productions
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 1,813
  • Joined: 19-April 05
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:A sea of Zen!
  • Interests:Wow...Everything lol...Music of course :)...I love my family. We love to travel.

    "From one thing know Ten-Thousand things">----------Miyamoto Musashi

Posted 16 April 2010 - 12:36 PM

Ah, OK, a live mic is another story. Unless you are ready to step up to a handheld condensor mic the EV should work out fine. Listening to your voice I would think a handheld condensor may be the way to go if, you are seeking something that will do your voice justice. Although it is a live mic situation do not discount what a good preamp will do for your live vocal sound either. This is the difference between a truly professional live sound, and the sound everyone settles for. Remember, the sound of your voice is a big part of your brand as a vocalist.

Props on your voice Shanon.

View Postshanonlee, on 16 April 2010 - 08:40 AM, said:

So much information! Thank you. I will check those links and keep this information for future reference.

View PostLzi, on 15 April 2010 - 11:24 AM, said:

Hi shanonlee

I have used this mic before but, not for vocals, to record toms. Dynamic mics can sound very nice for recording vocals. The trick is to use a preamp that'll allow you to set the impedance rather than using a fixed impedance more suited for condensor mics. My secret weapon preamp for getting the most out of dynamic microphones (I can't believe I'm posting this here) is a Summit Audio 2BA-221.

With this preamp you can fine tune the sound of a dynamic mic. World class vocals can be (and have been) recorded using a dynamic mic and this preamp. @$629 it's not cheap but not exactly what I would call expensive when it comes to preamps. This mic preamp is a true gem. Here's a link:

http://www.sweetwate.../detail/2BA221/

What's wrong with an SM58? Not exactly my first choice of mics to put on a female vocalist but, no dynamic would be.
If you'd like to check out a great dynamic microphone look into a Shure SM7B. First mic I put up on a female vocalist is my vintage AKG C414B TLII (reissued as the XLII but, it's NOT the same). The newer version XLII is pretty good but, it's definately not the same. They say it has the same capsule, which is what makes the TLII such a prized vocal microphone but, while it may be the same according to specs, this does not mean that something has not changed in the manufactuering process. You could check into an AKG C12 clone, which is the mic that shares the same capsule as the TLII. The C-12 is legendary...Incredible sounding ESPECIALLY on female vocalists. @ around $20k IF you can locate one. You have definately heard a C-12 before many times on the radio. The absolute best copy of it I have ever heard is made by a company called Advanced Audio (CM-12 SE $849)...here's a link to the mic (sounds like fine silk! GORGEOUS):

http://www.aamicroph..._mics/cm_12.htm

Another version is available for $695 but it has a different capsule, and I haven't heard this version of the CM 12 as of yet.

Another very nice vocal mic made by Advanced Audio is a copy of a Neumann U87 (ben copied MANY times but this one is on target). Not bad for $379 considering a U87 goes for TEN times this much! This will give you that pop vocal sound in spade cards.

Here's a link to the CM-87

http://www.aamicroph..._mics/cm_87.htm

One more mic worth considering from Advanced Audio is their AKG C414 copy (sounds ridiculously close to my TLII more so than AKG's reissue IMHO:

http://www.aamicroph...mics/cm_414.htm

Also priced@ $379

Remember, as a vocalist your instrument is the combined sound of your voice, your microphone, and your preamp. You can go the cheap route and do OK but, it's just like cheap guitars, they can play great (or maybe not so great lol) but, sound quite lackluster. Step up to a quality guitar and the sonic difference can be amazing! Same thing with a mic&preamp. Go cheap, and it may sound OK but, get some great gear and WHAM there's that vocal sound you've chased your whole life!

"Digital? is that the thing where they take a good old sine wave and chop it into bits?"
---Rupert Neve

ANGELz REIGN Productions

#13 User is offline   shanonlee Icon

  • Contributing Muse
  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 49
  • Joined: 13-April 10
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:USA
  • Interests:Singing, Songwriting

Posted 17 April 2010 - 11:11 PM

Oh, they definitely know they can upsell me. As long as it's in my budget and a quality product, I'll go along :)

I am glearning who to go to (walked out empty-handed yesterday) and who will just blow smoke up my behind. Turns out the audio interface one guy tried to sell me isn't even compatible with my pc and his buddy told me so.

I will let you know how I like it.



View Postgo-round, on 16 April 2010 - 10:30 AM, said:

Which one is more expensive? Do you trust the people at your music store? Maybe they just wanted to make more money.

No, I'm kidding with you. They are pretty close in price anyways. Please let us know if you end up liking the mic. It'd be cool if you could borrow an SM58 and compare the two.

Shanon Lee
theshanonlee.com

#14 User is offline   shanonlee Icon

  • Contributing Muse
  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 49
  • Joined: 13-April 10
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:USA
  • Interests:Singing, Songwriting

Posted 17 April 2010 - 11:17 PM

Thank you :) I am definitely going to check out some preamps. The songs for the EP are downtempo, simple compositions and the vocals will be the focal point. Can't hide behind a dance beat or some autotune, or something, lol. So, everything matters.

View PostLzi, on 16 April 2010 - 12:36 PM, said:

Ah, OK, a live mic is another story. Unless you are ready to step up to a handheld condensor mic the EV should work out fine. Listening to your voice I would think a handheld condensor may be the way to go if, you are seeking something that will do your voice justice. Although it is a live mic situation do not discount what a good preamp will do for your live vocal sound either. This is the difference between a truly professional live sound, and the sound everyone settles for. Remember, the sound of your voice is a big part of your brand as a vocalist.

Props on your voice Shanon.

View Postshanonlee, on 16 April 2010 - 08:40 AM, said:

So much information! Thank you. I will check those links and keep this information for future reference.

View PostLzi, on 15 April 2010 - 11:24 AM, said:

Hi shanonlee

I have used this mic before but, not for vocals, to record toms. Dynamic mics can sound very nice for recording vocals. The trick is to use a preamp that'll allow you to set the impedance rather than using a fixed impedance more suited for condensor mics. My secret weapon preamp for getting the most out of dynamic microphones (I can't believe I'm posting this here) is a Summit Audio 2BA-221.

With this preamp you can fine tune the sound of a dynamic mic. World class vocals can be (and have been) recorded using a dynamic mic and this preamp. @$629 it's not cheap but not exactly what I would call expensive when it comes to preamps. This mic preamp is a true gem. Here's a link:

http://www.sweetwate.../detail/2BA221/

What's wrong with an SM58? Not exactly my first choice of mics to put on a female vocalist but, no dynamic would be.
If you'd like to check out a great dynamic microphone look into a Shure SM7B. First mic I put up on a female vocalist is my vintage AKG C414B TLII (reissued as the XLII but, it's NOT the same). The newer version XLII is pretty good but, it's definately not the same. They say it has the same capsule, which is what makes the TLII such a prized vocal microphone but, while it may be the same according to specs, this does not mean that something has not changed in the manufactuering process. You could check into an AKG C12 clone, which is the mic that shares the same capsule as the TLII. The C-12 is legendary...Incredible sounding ESPECIALLY on female vocalists. @ around $20k IF you can locate one. You have definately heard a C-12 before many times on the radio. The absolute best copy of it I have ever heard is made by a company called Advanced Audio (CM-12 SE $849)...here's a link to the mic (sounds like fine silk! GORGEOUS):

http://www.aamicroph..._mics/cm_12.htm

Another version is available for $695 but it has a different capsule, and I haven't heard this version of the CM 12 as of yet.

Another very nice vocal mic made by Advanced Audio is a copy of a Neumann U87 (ben copied MANY times but this one is on target). Not bad for $379 considering a U87 goes for TEN times this much! This will give you that pop vocal sound in spade cards.

Here's a link to the CM-87

http://www.aamicroph..._mics/cm_87.htm

One more mic worth considering from Advanced Audio is their AKG C414 copy (sounds ridiculously close to my TLII more so than AKG's reissue IMHO:

http://www.aamicroph...mics/cm_414.htm

Also priced@ $379

Remember, as a vocalist your instrument is the combined sound of your voice, your microphone, and your preamp. You can go the cheap route and do OK but, it's just like cheap guitars, they can play great (or maybe not so great lol) but, sound quite lackluster. Step up to a quality guitar and the sonic difference can be amazing! Same thing with a mic&preamp. Go cheap, and it may sound OK but, get some great gear and WHAM there's that vocal sound you've chased your whole life!

Shanon Lee
theshanonlee.com

#15 User is offline   Lzi Icon

  • Angelz Reign Productions
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 1,813
  • Joined: 19-April 05
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:A sea of Zen!
  • Interests:Wow...Everything lol...Music of course :)...I love my family. We love to travel.

    "From one thing know Ten-Thousand things">----------Miyamoto Musashi

Posted 19 April 2010 - 09:55 AM

Summit Audio 2BA-221

Grace m101

Both are under $700. Both have enough gain to handle dynamic microphones (dynamic mics need quite a bit of gain). Both can give you world class results. Both will be a good investment as far as resale value is concerned.

Until you speand $2000 you can't touch either of these two preamps. I give the edge to the Summit Audio piece because, it has variable impedance which is a feature that really comes in handy when recording dynamic microphones, really brings them to another level of performance.

Stay away from the $300 channel strip preamps that promise an eq and compressor along with a preamp and the rest of the world to! These are, for the most part, little more than junk. I'm certain alot of users will be offended by my saying this because, they own something of this sort. Truth is Shanon, If your voice wasn't as good as it is it might not matter but, since your voice is that good you don't want to settle for what amounts to a noise maker. Get the good suff from the start, and save yourself alot of chasing.
"Digital? is that the thing where they take a good old sine wave and chop it into bits?"
---Rupert Neve

ANGELz REIGN Productions

#16 User is offline   ceadsearc Icon

  • Contributing Muse
  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 85
  • Joined: 21-March 10

Posted 19 April 2010 - 02:10 PM

Hmm - how about a condensor mic? entry level M-Audio works good for me. my voice isnt' good but i know that it records well for others.

#17 User is offline   shanonlee Icon

  • Contributing Muse
  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 49
  • Joined: 13-April 10
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:USA
  • Interests:Singing, Songwriting

Posted 20 April 2010 - 12:51 AM

Thanks,

Right now, I just needed something suitable for performance. I was pleased it could also be used for recording purposes as well. I just have a very basic set up at home.

View Postceadsearc, on 19 April 2010 - 02:10 PM, said:

Hmm - how about a condensor mic? entry level M-Audio works good for me. my voice isnt' good but i know that it records well for others.

Shanon Lee
theshanonlee.com

#18 User is offline   shanonlee Icon

  • Contributing Muse
  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 49
  • Joined: 13-April 10
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:USA
  • Interests:Singing, Songwriting

Posted 20 April 2010 - 12:52 AM

Thanks again for the advice. Put it on my tab ;)

View PostLzi, on 19 April 2010 - 09:55 AM, said:

Summit Audio 2BA-221

Grace m101

Both are under $700. Both have enough gain to handle dynamic microphones (dynamic mics need quite a bit of gain). Both can give you world class results. Both will be a good investment as far as resale value is concerned.

Until you speand $2000 you can't touch either of these two preamps. I give the edge to the Summit Audio piece because, it has variable impedance which is a feature that really comes in handy when recording dynamic microphones, really brings them to another level of performance.

Stay away from the $300 channel strip preamps that promise an eq and compressor along with a preamp and the rest of the world to! These are, for the most part, little more than junk. I'm certain alot of users will be offended by my saying this because, they own something of this sort. Truth is Shanon, If your voice wasn't as good as it is it might not matter but, since your voice is that good you don't want to settle for what amounts to a noise maker. Get the good suff from the start, and save yourself alot of chasing.

Shanon Lee
theshanonlee.com

#19 User is offline   DannyDep Icon

  • A Muse's Muse
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 1,415
  • Joined: 11-November 03
  • Location:Tampa, FL. USA
  • Interests:To make a difference and in the general realm of things, to enjoy life.

Posted 23 April 2010 - 02:06 PM

Hi Shannon,
Buying a microphone is probably the second most important piece of equipment you'll be buying, right after studio monitors.
And being a singer, it's probably #1.
I agree 100% with Lzi on a preamp.
You should always make it a point to try equipment out before you buy, whenever possible.

You might want to try to build up a rapport with a Music Store in your area.
I found someone I could trust and found that he would let me take stuff home on the weekends to try out before i bought.
I've moved and had to go through this process once again. But you may find it is worth the extra effort.
Good luck. :)
ciao, Dan
"The quality of life,
can only be measured by
the integrity of yourself and the friends
that take the trip with you."

Here are two of my friends,
Posted Image
here is my Soundclick page,
Soundclick webpage
here is my Facebook page,
Facebook webpate
and here is the rest.
My homepage.

#20 User is offline   shanonlee Icon

  • Contributing Muse
  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 49
  • Joined: 13-April 10
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:USA
  • Interests:Singing, Songwriting

Posted 26 April 2010 - 03:35 PM

Thank you. I am definitely going to buy a preamp. What an awesome arrangement you had! I am getting to know a few people at the Guitar Center. Found myself a keyboard player there. It pays to be social.

View PostDannyDep, on 23 April 2010 - 02:06 PM, said:

Hi Shannon,
Buying a microphone is probably the second most important piece of equipment you'll be buying, right after studio monitors.
And being a singer, it's probably #1.
I agree 100% with Lzi on a preamp.
You should always make it a point to try equipment out before you buy, whenever possible.

You might want to try to build up a rapport with a Music Store in your area.
I found someone I could trust and found that he would let me take stuff home on the weekends to try out before i bought.
I've moved and had to go through this process once again. But you may find it is worth the extra effort.
Good luck. :)
ciao, Dan

Shanon Lee
theshanonlee.com

#21 User is offline   DannyDep Icon

  • A Muse's Muse
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 1,415
  • Joined: 11-November 03
  • Location:Tampa, FL. USA
  • Interests:To make a difference and in the general realm of things, to enjoy life.

Posted 28 April 2010 - 05:31 PM

View Postshanonlee, on 26 April 2010 - 04:35 PM, said:

Thank you. I am definitely going to buy a preamp. What an awesome arrangement you had! I am getting to know a few people at the Guitar Center. Found myself a keyboard player there. It pays to be social.
Absolutely, less vinegar, more honey. ;)
But also remember that YOU make the decision on what to buy.
If a salesmen tries to sell you something without any grounded technical or acoustical reasons, walk out of that place and find another.
Have fun. :)
ciao, Dan
"The quality of life,
can only be measured by
the integrity of yourself and the friends
that take the trip with you."

Here are two of my friends,
Posted Image
here is my Soundclick page,
Soundclick webpage
here is my Facebook page,
Facebook webpate
and here is the rest.
My homepage.

#22 User is offline   Lzi Icon

  • Angelz Reign Productions
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 1,813
  • Joined: 19-April 05
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:A sea of Zen!
  • Interests:Wow...Everything lol...Music of course :)...I love my family. We love to travel.

    "From one thing know Ten-Thousand things">----------Miyamoto Musashi

Posted 12 May 2010 - 09:22 AM

View PostDannyDep, on 28 April 2010 - 06:31 PM, said:

View Postshanonlee, on 26 April 2010 - 04:35 PM, said:

Thank you. I am definitely going to buy a preamp. What an awesome arrangement you had! I am getting to know a few people at the Guitar Center. Found myself a keyboard player there. It pays to be social.
Absolutely, less vinegar, more honey. ;)
But also remember that YOU make the decision on what to buy.
If a salesmen tries to sell you something without any grounded technical or acoustical reasons, walk out of that place and find another.
Have fun. :)
ciao, Dan


Very good advice.

Now, I see people talking about M-Audio. Oh no, stay away from M Audio gear. Entry level is a phrase that means, Oh go ahead and waste your money on this junk for now because, you WILL come back to buy better gear later. My question is, why buy gear that you'll just buy again later? Actually, you're spending more money this way. Believe me, a good microphone, and a good preamp are going to get you further than any other gear you'll ever buy. If you get into this deep enough you'll spend loads of money on software, why skimp on your vocal chain? Better to buy a rebuilt computer, and save your money there, than to attempt to save budget on the very first thing that touches your voice BEFORE it goes into the digital box? The voice is an acoustic instrument, it must be captured by a good vocal chain going into the box if it is going to sound it's very best. A singer buying a cheap mic or preamp is like a guitarist who plays a $150 piece of you know what guitar...think about it. Your voice is your instrument but, then so is the microphone/vocal chain.

OK would I take a $3000 guitar and plug it into a $99 amplifier? Same thing here. Shanon you have a very nice voice, why run your sound through anything but the best? And for your info M Audio gear is one step up from absolute junk. Those who say "I can't hear any difference"---You have absolutely no business trying to record anything, go to a studio to record your music. I am not saying this to be mean, I am sincerely trying to help. Hearing is everything in a studio, it's everything onstage tas well. (notice Dan talking about how important your monitors are?). Ever been onstage and couldn't hear yourself sing? If you have then you should know full well how important monitors are.
"Digital? is that the thing where they take a good old sine wave and chop it into bits?"
---Rupert Neve

ANGELz REIGN Productions

#23 User is offline   shanonlee Icon

  • Contributing Muse
  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 49
  • Joined: 13-April 10
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:USA
  • Interests:Singing, Songwriting

Posted 14 May 2010 - 09:56 AM

Thanks again. I hear you and am taking note. My sound engineer would agree with you. He's been burning my ear speaking of this $5k microphone he just ordered that will do everything but sing for me. :D I'm definitely not going to make random trips to the music store anymore.

My mic sounds great for what I need for now, but I have some software that has taken more time than I had available to get up and running (Cubase LE 4). I was told it was just a step up from Audacity, but it's a wee bit more complicated than that and there is no phone tech support available. Gone are the days when singers could just show up, look cute, sing a song and leave. We have to be songwriters, producers, recording engineers, etc. etc. etc. It's just the way it is.

-S.

View PostLzi, on 12 May 2010 - 09:22 AM, said:

View PostDannyDep, on 28 April 2010 - 06:31 PM, said:

View Postshanonlee, on 26 April 2010 - 04:35 PM, said:

Thank you. I am definitely going to buy a preamp. What an awesome arrangement you had! I am getting to know a few people at the Guitar Center. Found myself a keyboard player there. It pays to be social.
Absolutely, less vinegar, more honey. ;)
But also remember that YOU make the decision on what to buy.
If a salesmen tries to sell you something without any grounded technical or acoustical reasons, walk out of that place and find another.
Have fun. :)
ciao, Dan


Very good advice.

Now, I see people talking about M-Audio. Oh no, stay away from M Audio gear. Entry level is a phrase that means, Oh go ahead and waste your money on this junk for now because, you WILL come back to buy better gear later. My question is, why buy gear that you'll just buy again later? Actually, you're spending more money this way. Believe me, a good microphone, and a good preamp are going to get you further than any other gear you'll ever buy. If you get into this deep enough you'll spend loads of money on software, why skimp on your vocal chain? Better to buy a rebuilt computer, and save your money there, than to attempt to save budget on the very first thing that touches your voice BEFORE it goes into the digital box? The voice is an acoustic instrument, it must be captured by a good vocal chain going into the box if it is going to sound it's very best. A singer buying a cheap mic or preamp is like a guitarist who plays a $150 piece of you know what guitar...think about it. Your voice is your instrument but, then so is the microphone/vocal chain.

OK would I take a $3000 guitar and plug it into a $99 amplifier? Same thing here. Shanon you have a very nice voice, why run your sound through anything but the best? And for your info M Audio gear is one step up from absolute junk. Those who say "I can't hear any difference"---You have absolutely no business trying to record anything, go to a studio to record your music. I am not saying this to be mean, I am sincerely trying to help. Hearing is everything in a studio, it's everything onstage tas well. (notice Dan talking about how important your monitors are?). Ever been onstage and couldn't hear yourself sing? If you have then you should know full well how important monitors are.

Shanon Lee
theshanonlee.com

#24 User is offline   Simple Simon Icon

  • Distant Uncle Muse
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Moderators
  • Posts: 4,338
  • Joined: 01-March 02
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New Zealand
  • Interests:Life.

Posted 15 May 2010 - 03:31 AM

View PostLzi, on 12 May 2010 - 09:22 AM, said:

And for your info M Audio gear is one step up from absolute junk.


That's an interesting statement, Lzi, and perhaps a little harsh. I own an M-Audio Fast Track Pro which I bought as a convenient mobile unit and have used occasionally for various applications. It's not what you might call state of the art by any means, but I've achieved some perfectly adequate results with it.

I realise you are something of a "perfectionist" in your own way, Lzi, and I understand your passion for the pursuit of this illusive concept, but I am something of a pragmatist. All "gear" is less than "perfect", just as all musicians are, but that doesn't mean that all gear should be cast aside and all musicians should ceased to be listened to. Everything and everything has its/their place; such is the dance of Maya. Not everyone is in a position to either buy professional studio time or to invest in top-line equipment, so happy compromises have to be made (and it is such happy compromises that many who frequent these forums are seeking).

One man's absolute junk is another man's absolute treasure.

It's all relative. :)

Cheers

Simon

#25 User is offline   Lzi Icon

  • Angelz Reign Productions
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 1,813
  • Joined: 19-April 05
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:A sea of Zen!
  • Interests:Wow...Everything lol...Music of course :)...I love my family. We love to travel.

    "From one thing know Ten-Thousand things">----------Miyamoto Musashi

Posted 18 May 2010 - 11:33 AM

View PostSimple Simon, on 15 May 2010 - 04:31 AM, said:

View PostLzi, on 12 May 2010 - 09:22 AM, said:

And for your info M Audio gear is one step up from absolute junk.


That's an interesting statement, Lzi, and perhaps a little harsh. I own an M-Audio Fast Track Pro which I bought as a convenient mobile unit and have used occasionally for various applications. It's not what you might call state of the art by any means, but I've achieved some perfectly adequate results with it.

I realise you are something of a "perfectionist" in your own way, Lzi, and I understand your passion for the pursuit of this illusive concept, but I am something of a pragmatist. All "gear" is less than "perfect", just as all musicians are, but that doesn't mean that all gear should be cast aside and all musicians should ceased to be listened to. Everything and everything has its/their place; such is the dance of Maya. Not everyone is in a position to either buy professional studio time or to invest in top-line equipment, so happy compromises have to be made (and it is such happy compromises that many who frequent these forums are seeking).

One man's absolute junk is another man's absolute treasure.

It's all relative. :)

Cheers

Simon


First, I understand the one man's junk is another man's treasure quote. I have some "junk" mics, and some junk little combo amps which I use for creating original lo-fi vocal sounds. This hardly relates to the scenario we are speaking about though. M Audio microphones and M Audio preamps are run of the mill gear aimed at the ordinary among us who cannot hear the difference and/or doesn't really care if their recordings are the best that they can be. This being said, know also, it was not said as an insult to anyone. If this is just a hobby, M Audio gear is perfect for you but, don't expect great results from it.

Now, I do not know if you have heard Shanon's voice Simon but, it is definately deserving of something more than an M Audio signal chain.

For those who believe that gear doesn't matter: This past weekend, I had the pleasure of recording a very fine guitarist. He had 3 Eric Johnson Strats, a fourth american made strat, and a vintage Fender Champ tube amplifier.

We started with the american made strat which was sounding decent enough. When we moved on the the EJ strats the difference was as clear as night and day. I threw my ear right into the amp's speaker (this is how the big boys do it) to search for the sweet spot of the speaker, found it, threw up a Sennheiser E609 (the "meat" of a 57 was not right for this player/guitar/amp/song) and there it was, a beautiful guitar tone. The point which I am trying to illustrate is, yes, we had a decent sound forom jump street but, the difference between the american made strat, and the Fender custom shop made Eric Johnson model (about a 7-800 dollars difference in price) was quite remarkable. I played all four guitars, the playability of the EJ strats was worlds above the standard american made strat. Was the playability worth the extra expense of the EJ model strats? Most definately, every penny. The difference between these instruments is much like the difference between a singer that is OK and one that is great. The great singer deserves a great signal chain (mic&preamp) which does justice to their acoustic instrument(voice). The guitarists among us most likely will have no issue with justifying the expense of a beautiful sounding/playing guitar. Then they go microphone shopping, and some schmuck of a salesperson sells them an Audio Technica 2020 $99 condensor mic telling the guitarist it's all you'll ever need, and he believes it to, that is until he comes over here, and I throw up a pair of small diaphram condensor mics amped up by a nice preamp. Oh my God is the usual response.

In the zeal to make their own recordings consumers become accustomed to how the middle of the road gear they have invested in sounds, and they accept this level of performance as being "professional." This is a fully conditioned customer. M Audio is a newer company, born of the digital home recording craze. Universal Audio is a company that has been around for years. It's famous M 610 preamp was created a long time before the digital recording market was even though about. The UA M 610 preamp absolutely smokes the M Audio Octane preamp although it's technology is 40 years old. Why should this be possible? Our world is so advanced (HA!) technologically speaking now, how could a 40 year old preamp blow away one created today? One word-Care.

I am no perfectionist my friend. Perfection is a moving target. Yes, everything is relative, most people accept whatever some kid at Guitar Center, or the ever handy Musician's Friend catalog hypes to them as "the state of the art" and then...THEN they want to ask questions like "How do I make good sounding recordings? It's ok to settle for less than the best, just don't expect the "best" to come out of it! People have no qualms dropping large sums of money on computer systems and software but, suggest that they spend a little bit more on a mic and a preamp and they are ready to almost crucify you...These type of people have no business trying to record anything. In truth Simon, this type of response is the ordinary, the usual, and this tells me instantly the responder is in way over their head. There is nothing wrong with recording as a hobby, and using gear that isn't the best BUT, do not seek what is not attainable with it, because you might as well chase your tail! Yup, indeed, everything is relative. My question is, relative to what?
"Digital? is that the thing where they take a good old sine wave and chop it into bits?"
---Rupert Neve

ANGELz REIGN Productions

#26 User is online   Alistair S Icon

  • A Muse's Muse
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 12,811
  • Joined: 18-May 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Reading, Berkshire, UK

Posted 18 May 2010 - 06:44 PM

This thread may have moved on, but wasn't it all about a mic for live performance?

I'm curious, as I have limited experience. In most circumstances, won't the mic feed into the board, and very often use the board pres? I'm sure a better pre could be fed into a line-in on a board (and maybe some outboard compression/reverb too). How often does this happen? Is the answer to simply get a better board?

Genuine question, as I don't know how much is done at the top end of live performance, but I assume (maybe wrongly) that some compromises are made.
My Soundclick Music Page
My Facebook Music Page

"In my opinion this is a bunch of filth and garbage and we need far less this type of lyrics gettin back in the ears of our children." - from a critique received

"When I was 5 years old, my mum always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wante to be when I grew up. I wrote down, "Happy". The told me I didn't understand the assignment and I told them they didn't understand life." John Lennon.

#27 User is offline   Simple Simon Icon

  • Distant Uncle Muse
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Moderators
  • Posts: 4,338
  • Joined: 01-March 02
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New Zealand
  • Interests:Life.

Posted 19 May 2010 - 12:24 AM

View PostAlistair S, on 19 May 2010 - 12:44 PM, said:

This thread may have moved on, but wasn't it all about a mic for live performance?

I'm curious, as I have limited experience. In most circumstances, won't the mic feed into the board, and very often use the board pres? I'm sure a better pre could be fed into a line-in on a board (and maybe some outboard compression/reverb too). How often does this happen? Is the answer to simply get a better board?

Genuine question, as I don't know how much is done at the top end of live performance, but I assume (maybe wrongly) that some compromises are made.


Good point that it was about live performance primarily, but Shanonlee was keen to be able to use it for recording as well.

In answer to your second question, I know a number of people who are involved in mid to mid-high end professional live sound and I am not aware of any of them using outboard pre-amps. Of course, they own desks with very high quality built-in pre-amps though. I am quite sure that Lzi is correct in suggesting that some high-end professional artists use outboard pre-amps, but they would have to be a tiny minority of all performing musicians - professional or otherwise.






#28 User is offline   Simple Simon Icon

  • Distant Uncle Muse
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Moderators
  • Posts: 4,338
  • Joined: 01-March 02
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New Zealand
  • Interests:Life.

Posted 19 May 2010 - 01:15 AM

View PostLzi, on 19 May 2010 - 05:33 AM, said:

Yup, indeed, everything is relative. My question is, relative to what?

Relative to one's perception, Grasshopper. ;)

#29 User is offline   Lzi Icon

  • Angelz Reign Productions
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 1,813
  • Joined: 19-April 05
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:A sea of Zen!
  • Interests:Wow...Everything lol...Music of course :)...I love my family. We love to travel.

    "From one thing know Ten-Thousand things">----------Miyamoto Musashi

Posted 19 May 2010 - 04:54 PM

View PostSimple Simon, on 19 May 2010 - 02:15 AM, said:

View PostLzi, on 19 May 2010 - 05:33 AM, said:

Yup, indeed, everything is relative. My question is, relative to what?

Relative to one's perception, Grasshopper. ;)


Ah! Now we're REALLY in trouble!

Just curious...Does this mean everyone's perception is the absolute truth then?
Is M-Audio *THE BOMB* then, just because somebody thinks it is?
Perceptions can be colored by many things, take absolute idiocy for instance or maybe,
catalog wish books, perhaps even by one's own wants? As they say,

"Perception is reality"

If it is, this world is nothing but one huge acid trip!
"Digital? is that the thing where they take a good old sine wave and chop it into bits?"
---Rupert Neve

ANGELz REIGN Productions

#30 User is offline   Lzi Icon

  • Angelz Reign Productions
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 1,813
  • Joined: 19-April 05
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:A sea of Zen!
  • Interests:Wow...Everything lol...Music of course :)...I love my family. We love to travel.

    "From one thing know Ten-Thousand things">----------Miyamoto Musashi

Posted 19 May 2010 - 05:56 PM

View PostSimple Simon, on 19 May 2010 - 01:24 AM, said:

View PostAlistair S, on 19 May 2010 - 12:44 PM, said:

This thread may have moved on, but wasn't it all about a mic for live performance?

I'm curious, as I have limited experience. In most circumstances, won't the mic feed into the board, and very often use the board pres? I'm sure a better pre could be fed into a line-in on a board (and maybe some outboard compression/reverb too). How often does this happen? Is the answer to simply get a better board?

Genuine question, as I don't know how much is done at the top end of live performance, but I assume (maybe wrongly) that some compromises are made.


Good point that it was about live performance primarily, but Shanonlee was keen to be able to use it for recording as well.

In answer to your second question, I know a number of people who are involved in mid to mid-high end professional live sound and I am not aware of any of them using outboard pre-amps. Of course, they own desks with very high quality built-in pre-amps though. I am quite sure that Lzi is correct in suggesting that some high-end professional artists use outboard pre-amps, but they would have to be a tiny minority of all performing musicians - professional or otherwise.


My line of reasoning is simple. If, as you say Simon, "high-end professional artists" do use outboard mic pres, wouldn't it stand to good reason that the independent artist, such as ShanonLee might find a bit of an edge on her peers if they are not using such equipment, and she is? Also, are not a mic, and a preamp akin to a guitar, and an amplifier? A microphone is an instrument which requires a preamp. These two elements are very much a part of a singers live/recorded sound. If the voice warrants it, why not take the plunge if, it is to give you an edge? Those top notch professional artists are a better ruler for Shanon to measure herself against than, the arists who are performing on the same scene as her. She will always sound a step above her peers this way. I can think of money spent in much worse ways. The sound of any instrument is it's signature.

Why not use a dedicated preamp, and a nice handheld condensor is the true question here Simon, I mean, if the artist warrants it, I think it's a move that will push their performance level even higher. You know very well how a nice guitar makes you a better player, same thing here, the very same thing. If Shanon sounds better, she will sing better. It's a simple equation.


Shanon has a very nice voice btw.
"Digital? is that the thing where they take a good old sine wave and chop it into bits?"
---Rupert Neve

ANGELz REIGN Productions

#31 User is offline   Simple Simon Icon

  • Distant Uncle Muse
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Moderators
  • Posts: 4,338
  • Joined: 01-March 02
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New Zealand
  • Interests:Life.

Posted 20 May 2010 - 12:19 AM

View PostLzi, on 20 May 2010 - 10:54 AM, said:

Just curious...Does this mean everyone's perception is the absolute truth then?
Of course not; it's just the absolute truth for each individual (in other words, relative truth).

Quote

Is M-Audio *THE BOMB* then, just because somebody thinks it is?
Yes. If someone thinks M-Audio is "the bomb" then it is, to them.

A lesson, or series of lessons I quite enjoy taking with kids examines the difference between fact and opinion; often the two are confused. In the case of a piece of M-Audio gear, for example, it would be factual to compare measurable characteristics such as THD, dynamic range, frequency response and similar parameters against other pieces of equipment. To call it "the bomb" or "the best" or "utter crap", on the other hand, would constitute an opinion - a value-judgement. Such value-judgements are influenced, as you note, by a wide range of external factors: catalogues, marketing, peers, upbringing and so on, but also by one's personal circumstances. A hundred dollar guitar might be seen as a waste of wood and steel by someone with an averagely-healthy first-world bank balance, but to a talented kid from some village in Zambia, it might feel and sound like something the gods had created.

Quote

"Perception is reality"

If it is, this world is nothing but one huge acid trip!

Precisely. Posted Image




#32 User is offline   Simple Simon Icon

  • Distant Uncle Muse
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Moderators
  • Posts: 4,338
  • Joined: 01-March 02
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New Zealand
  • Interests:Life.

Posted 20 May 2010 - 12:39 AM

View PostLzi, on 20 May 2010 - 11:56 AM, said:

My line of reasoning is simple. If, as you say Simon, "high-end professional artists" do use outboard mic pres, wouldn't it stand to good reason that the independent artist, such as ShanonLee might find a bit of an edge on her peers if they are not using such equipment, and she is?

Don't get me wrong, my friend; I am not saying that ShanonLee (or anyone else) "shouldn't" use a top-quality condensor mic and pre-amp. As far as I'm concerned, if someone has the money and the inclination to invest in such gear, then they should go for it! I'm simply noting that many folks don't enjoy such a luxury, and that it can be possible to get perfectly "acceptable" (an in "success-achieving") results with relatively affordable equipment. I had noted that Shanonlee mentioned that her studio setup was fairly "basic". To me, that implied that she was probably on a less-than-unlimited budget (like most musicians). Where there is a less-than-unlimited budget, there is compromise. For a singer like ShanonLee, I would have though that compromise might be less about finding the ultimate outboard pre-amp than simply finding an affordable microphone that is suitable for both live performance and recording in her home studio, and which suits/complements her voice. No?

#33 User is offline   Lzi Icon

  • Angelz Reign Productions
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 1,813
  • Joined: 19-April 05
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:A sea of Zen!
  • Interests:Wow...Everything lol...Music of course :)...I love my family. We love to travel.

    "From one thing know Ten-Thousand things">----------Miyamoto Musashi

Posted 24 May 2010 - 06:54 PM

View PostSimple Simon, on 20 May 2010 - 01:19 AM, said:

View PostLzi, on 20 May 2010 - 10:54 AM, said:

Just curious...Does this mean everyone's perception is the absolute truth then?
Of course not; it's just the absolute truth for each individual (in other words, relative truth).

Quote

Is M-Audio *THE BOMB* then, just because somebody thinks it is?
Yes. If someone thinks M-Audio is "the bomb" then it is, to them.

A lesson, or series of lessons I quite enjoy taking with kids examines the difference between fact and opinion; often the two are confused. In the case of a piece of M-Audio gear, for example, it would be factual to compare measurable characteristics such as THD, dynamic range, frequency response and similar parameters against other pieces of equipment. To call it "the bomb" or "the best" or "utter crap", on the other hand, would constitute an opinion - a value-judgement. Such value-judgements are influenced, as you note, by a wide range of external factors: catalogues, marketing, peers, upbringing and so on, but also by one's personal circumstances. A hundred dollar guitar might be seen as a waste of wood and steel by someone with an averagely-healthy first-world bank balance, but to a talented kid from some village in Zambia, it might feel and sound like something the gods had created.

Quote

"Perception is reality"

If it is, this world is nothing but one huge acid trip!

Precisely. Posted Image


In Zambia a $100 guitar may indeed be seen as a magical artifact but, this type of wide view of things can be confusing.

I on the other hand have a perspective which is far removed from this senario. If someone in Zambia wants to make good recordings however, they must then look from a perspective not unlike my own. Because, a child in Zambia sees a beater guitar as a magical item sent from the gods matters not when the same child wants to make a good sounding record. He or she could simply call on the same gods to record the music however, both of us know this won't happen.
Give them some M Audio gear, and they may very well be absolutely astounded by the possibilities which it opens up to them. Their recordings may be fantastic sounding to them, on this level I will give you that everything is relative. This is not unlike what happens when a kid gets his first little home recording set up. Of course, empowered with a new technology they are going to become invested in it but, it still will not deliver what they'll truly need if their intention is to succeed in their musical endevours. I think telling that it will is horribly misleading.

Everything is relative, and perception is reality are good sayings however, a whole lot is left wide open here. It depends upon the mind that recievces the transmission of the truth whether or not it's truth is understood. Anyone may recite sayings. Knowing is less than understanding however. In my world, M Audio gear is not so good, and this is all that matters to me. Those who chase good audio, they should understand this when they hear the quality of sound it is capable of producing. If someone doesn't care about making quality recordings, if their intent is to make demoes they can show their friends, family, and associates for fun, then M Audio is the cat's meow, and I'll be the first to tell them so. It's all the gear they'll ever need. To simply make music for their own personal enjoyment/enrichment, IF this is the true intent which will never change then, by all means M Audio is the ticket.
Perceptions are different, and also realities.
"Digital? is that the thing where they take a good old sine wave and chop it into bits?"
---Rupert Neve

ANGELz REIGN Productions

#34 User is offline   Lzi Icon

  • Angelz Reign Productions
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 1,813
  • Joined: 19-April 05
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:A sea of Zen!
  • Interests:Wow...Everything lol...Music of course :)...I love my family. We love to travel.

    "From one thing know Ten-Thousand things">----------Miyamoto Musashi

Posted 24 May 2010 - 07:09 PM

View PostSimple Simon, on 20 May 2010 - 01:39 AM, said:

View PostLzi, on 20 May 2010 - 11:56 AM, said:

My line of reasoning is simple. If, as you say Simon, "high-end professional artists" do use outboard mic pres, wouldn't it stand to good reason that the independent artist, such as ShanonLee might find a bit of an edge on her peers if they are not using such equipment, and she is?

Don't get me wrong, my friend; I am not saying that ShanonLee (or anyone else) "shouldn't" use a top-quality condensor mic and pre-amp. As far as I'm concerned, if someone has the money and the inclination to invest in such gear, then they should go for it! I'm simply noting that many folks don't enjoy such a luxury, and that it can be possible to get perfectly "acceptable" (an in "success-achieving") results with relatively affordable equipment. I had noted that Shanonlee mentioned that her studio setup was fairly "basic". To me, that implied that she was probably on a less-than-unlimited budget (like most musicians). Where there is a less-than-unlimited budget, there is compromise. For a singer like ShanonLee, I would have though that compromise might be less about finding the ultimate outboard pre-amp than simply finding an affordable microphone that is suitable for both live performance and recording in her home studio, and which suits/complements her voice. No?


ShannonLee is a performer, and my point is, a musician, take a guitarist as example, spends $1000 or more for their rig )guitar, amp, pedals etc) so, why shouldn't a vocalist invest some money on thier mic/preamp? Is this unlike the guitarist? Not in my mind. Yes, a vocalist carries their instrument everywhere with them but, only the acoustic version. In order to perform live you need a mic. Granted, yes, you can use the board preamps if you really want to.

I remember a conversation you and I had a long time ago about those who frequent the muse trying to take their music to another level. Well, quite alot of vocalists don't even own their own microphone! C'mon now, you, and I both know when you rely on the house mic, it may change everytime, as will the preamp. This changes your vocal sound everytime you perform. The rooms do enough to change the sound without even mentioning gear. Gear should be one constant, this lends itself to comfort, and comfort/confidence onstage is alot. Imagine if musicians thought this way. Imagine if you were a guitarist, and every night you had to perform your music through an entirely different amp, pedal board, and on top of this had to use the house guitar. Continuity matter a whole lot. Think, never again have a lousy vocal sound. That is worth much more than money.

So, Shanonlee, if you are just singing for fun, if, this is just a hobby for you, pay no mind to my words. I have a feeling it's more than this to you, or I would have kept my mouth closed.
"Digital? is that the thing where they take a good old sine wave and chop it into bits?"
---Rupert Neve

ANGELz REIGN Productions

Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users