[Nicolej]

Hi
Any of you got any experience with sites like these or is it a waste of money?
http://taxi.com/
http://www.songlink.com/index.html
http://www.songquarters.com/
http://www.songu.com/
http://broadjam.com/?

Does anybody know other sites like these? And are these recommendable?

Nicolej Brink
www.myspace.com/nicolejbrink

[FunkDaddy]

Taxi is reputable, but save your money until you've got something pitchable.

[Nicolej]

FunkDaddy, on Aug 26 2009, 05:56 PM, said:

save your money until you've got something pitchable.

Does anybody ever pitch anything thrue taxi???

[zmulls]

Nicole

To expand on what FunkDaddy said, TAXI is considered by many to be worth doing but it's *not* worth it if you don't have pitch-worthy tracks.

The expectation in the business -- especially if you are pitching professionally -- is that your tracks are produced at a very high level, in a studio, and mastered. You should understand the business and have all your rights taken care of (you don't have to chase anyone down for copyright permission, you don't have anyone playing on your track who wasn't a work for hire, or a participant, etc.).

In other words you have to have a business-ready product, and know what you have.

I was with TAXI for a while, but I'm a lyricist who works with various musicians. I had a handful of tracks that I could pitch, but most of my demos were not "radio ready." Also, since I'm not a musician, I wasn't able to read a pitch and lay down a song to meet it. So I discontinued use of TAXI as I wasn't able to take advantage of it properly. I didn't have enough professional-quality product.

So you have to judge for yourself. If you're just starting out, no, you should not pay for TAXI. You should take a while and make sure you know what you have, in comparison to what everyone else is doing.

Z.

[FunkDaddy]

Nicolej, on Aug 27 2009, 01:24 PM, said:

FunkDaddy, on Aug 26 2009, 05:56 PM, said:

save your money until you've got something pitchable.

Does anybody ever pitch anything thrue taxi???

That's specifically what Taxi is for. There are forums and articles too, but Taxi the service is a go-between for artists/songwriters/producers and the people seeking their music (mostly music libraries) Taxi apparently is also a venue for artists to get signed, not sure how often that happens though. Many people pitch through Taxi, from what I've read on the site, it seems to take a while to really build up a "portfolio" so to say of signed tracks that make you any significant money.

[Neal K]

Nicolej, on Aug 27 2009, 10:24 AM, said:

Does anybody ever pitch anything thrue taxi???

Yes, there is a member on this site who has published music as a result of a pitch through Taxi. I think it's mostly music for TV and film, but he did have a song placed in a big budget feature film.

Neal

[Billy]

Look into American Songspace. It's a free online music site associated with Ameican Songwriter magazine. Lately, they've been posting opportunities similar to that of Taxi that typically only const $5.00 to apply. In addition to your membership fee on TAXI, you'll pay a $5.00 fee there as well for each opportunity you apply to. If money and/or the amount of work you have available is an issue, I might stick to somethingalong the lines of American songspace for now.

BIlly

[Salley Gardens]

Billy, do you know of anyone who has had success with American Songspace?

[Billy]

Hi Salley,

No, but I've been a member for about a year and they seem to be continuously building up their site and providing more and more offerings. Last summer, they had a song contest where the winner was selected to be a part of a music compilation disc that was ditributed with their magazine. The disc was terrific and filled with many great and varried songs. The contest cost .99 to enter. N0t bad! I'm not sure what type of success rate they've had with placements but it wouldn't hurt to ask. I'm sure they'd provide you with some information. Like Taxi, I think the $5.00 fee is to limit the submissions to those that are serious about their craft. As you know, if it was free, everyone in the world would send something in. The site is free and filled with a variety of contests and submission opportunities, many of which are reasonably priced.

Billy

[Marty Dolciamore]

For a good place to learn the craft of songwriting, http://www.songU.com provides a lot of DIY classes as well as online Web classes. They're based in Nashville, so the times may be a little challenging to work around on the instructor Web classes but they do provide transcripts so that you can view/listen to the class after its presentation. They provide a Web page for members. For a nominal fee you can have your song critiqued by a professional. They also include feedback sessions as well.
They also provide tutoring on recording, publishing and the business of song writing - important stuff if you're looking to have your art support you.
I took the free ten day look and actually found a trick that I incorporated into one of my songs and that sold me on the site. Their cost is $75 every three months, which is pretty easy on the wallet compared to TAXI -

I would encourage you to check it out -

Marty

[Andreya]

Great thread!

How about for submitting to singers, eg country singers or Japanese pop or such? (I saw some listings on TAXI and American Songspace that I'm interested in) What kind of quality does the demo have to be?

Is it okay if it's just 'raw' (guitar+vocals), or does it have to be a 'full' demo with music totally worked out (in which case I'd need to team up with composer/s and musicians I guess?)

Also, isn't TAXI 300$ for the full year, $75x4=exactly the same, though in 'installments'?

[Marty Dolciamore]

That $75 a quarter is exactly that - and you can pull out at any time. I believe Taxi is $300 upfront, period. My feel is that SongU has more tools for beginning/journeyman songwriters - IMHO. You also have the ability to "street pitch" as well - directly, on SongU.
While we're kicking around sites, let me also mention the Nashville Songwriters Association International - click HERE. It's $150 for the year, there are some workshops/webcasts/articles and you cans submit 12 songs over the course of your year's enrollment and receive critiques. If your song qualifies, it is submitted to a publishers monthly roundtable. There are other perks as well.
Regarding your question on demos - there are a gazillion submissions going on constantly, if you're "product" doesn't stand out in the crowd, it gets lost in the shuffle (how's that for a mixed metaphor?) American Songspace actually has a "work tape" classification on song submissions - but I don't know how that would work - does the plugger/publisher hit that and just skp the submission out of hand?? Note - you'll see postings on some sites (Taxi is one) that says that your demo quality does not have to be that good - baloney - that's just some worm on the hook, don't be the fish. A quality demo usually runs about $300 to $500 for a full band demo plus vocalist. SongU has discounts at certain studios in Nashville. if you know someone who has a home studio set up you can try that avenue. It's all about the sizzle, not the hot dog - cabeesh?

Keep the pen moving

Marty

[Mary Dawson]

This is a good discussion, but in my opinion, all of these online resources cannot replace getting to know YOUR OWN MUSIC COMMUNITY! There are great musicians and great singers in every city in the world. The problem is that we tend to keep looking to what used to be the Big Three in music...Nashville, LA and NYC...to find opportunities. Today those "music capitols" are nothing like they used to be. Today great music and great success stories are more plentiful in other parts of the country and the world.

History bears this out. Think about Detroit prior to Motown. NOBODY moved to Detroit to pursue a music career. They moved there because of the automotive industry. But the Funk Bros., Barry Gordy, Smokey Robinson and other great musicians who passionately loved songs, found each other and began to collaborate. Voila! MOTOWN...which changed the world of music forever.

Before you go looking to far away cities and resources, start looking right under your nose. You may find artists looking for songs with whom you can grow into the next big sensation. Many years ago I met a nine-year-old girl right here in Dallas, TX who had an amazing voice I was asked to write songs for her. Today she is known all over the world -- her name is LeAnn Rimes.

There are markets and opportunities waiting to be tapped right where you live, and where you live is the place you have the most credibility and the best possibilities for success.

[Susan R]

Mary you have a valid point that you don't have to be in Nashville or LA. And in fact there are fewer sessions and they have smaller budgets here in Nashville. Also there is a glut of songwriters here now. On the other hand LeAnn Rimes' band is basically based in Nashville and she records here. So if you've networked well enough you have a better chance of getting her to hear one of your songs. But there are a number of new groups that have become regional stars all over the country that could use great songs and it gives the songwriter a great opportunity to get in on the ground floor. Basically it becomes a kind of big fish/small pond verses small fish/big pond.

The advantage for me working out of Nashville is that at the moment I am working on a well published lyricist's catalog to write Americana music and have over 300 lyrics to pick and choose from. And when I had a question about an arrangement in the style of 'The Band' I have a friend that worked on some of their sessions. He stopped by and showed me Garth Hudson's style of padded chords. On the down side expect to take 5 to 10 years to get established in Nashville or LA and have a second income.

[Marty Dolciamore]

Mary Dawson, on Jan 30 2010, 10:25 PM, said:

This is a good discussion, but in my opinion, all of these online resources cannot replace getting to know YOUR OWN MUSIC COMMUNITY! There are great musicians and great singers in every city in the world. The problem is that we tend to keep looking to what used to be the Big Three in music...Nashville, LA and NYC...to find opportunities. Today those "music capitols" are nothing like they used to be. Today great music and great success stories are more plentiful in other parts of the country and the world.

History bears this out. Think about Detroit prior to Motown. NOBODY moved to Detroit to pursue a music career. They moved there because of the automotive industry. But the Funk Bros., Barry Gordy, Smokey Robinson and other great musicians who passionately loved songs, found each other and began to collaborate. Voila! MOTOWN...which changed the world of music forever.

Before you go looking to far away cities and resources, start looking right under your nose. You may find artists looking for songs with whom you can grow into the next big sensation. Many years ago I met a nine-year-old girl right here in Dallas, TX who had an amazing voice I was asked to write songs for her. Today she is known all over the world -- her name is LeAnn Rimes.

There are markets and opportunities waiting to be tapped right where you live, and where you live is the place you have the most credibility and the best possibilities for success.

All valid points - but you need to know your craft. O/W you're riding Rosinante to the windmills. I'm trying to support local musicians here in Santa Cruz and San Jose, supporting them when I can, going to open mic's etc. I agree, think globally act locally - great stuff. But when you come down to the nuts and bolts of this business, you'd better know which nuts to use and which bolts to turn. There are a bevy of online resources and you need to be selective and studious and diligent as to which ones will advance your dream. NSAI has regional workshops/chapters all over the world - SongU has members in scattered across the earth - networking in this business is crucial and the net is an invaluable tool.
I love the story about LeAnn Rimes. Great synchronicity - and it does occur.
Credibility sometimes does not exist at the local level. Look at Billy Joel - being from Long Island, NY I was drawn to him when he finally hit - it was "Piano Man" that kicked his career off after he moved to Los Angeles.
Markets and opportunity exist everywhere - but you need to have the song. And the more you know about craft, the better job you can do as a writer/composer.

[Mary Dawson]

Good points! I especially agree with Susan's comment about Big Fish/ Small Pond. Just think about it....you have more credibility in the place where you live than any other place in the country. Even if you are a dentist, a real estate guy, or a dock worker...people KNOW YOU and YOU KNOW PEOPLE. If those people also know you are a songwriter, your credibility has just gone up.

Compare that to trying to break into a city where you know few people and NOBODY knows you. In my experience, very few of the online resources actually achieve real results (as in CUTS) for people in other places. If anyone has really gotten a cut and made any money as the result of their membership in these organizations, please let me know. I would love to hear your story.

For a good analysis of where the music business is today and how it got there, check out Dr. Terry Fansler's 2-part lecture on my radio show site -- http://www.iwritethesongs.com The second part is the "current show," so go to the Radio Show Archives section to listen to the first part first. Dr. Fansler is head of the Music Business Department at Dallas Baptist University, which is one of the most "ahead of the curve" schools in the country for music. Let me know what you think about what he says.

[Nicolej]

Andreya, on Jan 28 2010, 02:13 PM, said:

Great thread!

How about for submitting to singers, eg country singers or Japanese pop or such? (I saw some listings on TAXI and American Songspace that I'm interested in) What kind of quality does the demo have to be?

Is it okay if it's just 'raw' (guitar+vocals), or does it have to be a 'full' demo with music totally worked out (in which case I'd need to team up with composer/s and musicians I guess?)

Also, isn't TAXI 300$ for the full year, $75x4=exactly the same, though in 'installments'?

Hi Andreya
What genre are you writing. I'm wondering becouse I'm a bit short of lyrics and female vocals. On the other hand I've got a handfull of demoes ready. Perhaps we could work something out... just a thought.

[Mary Dawson]

Quote

Markets and opportunity exist everywhere - but you need to have the song. And the more you know about craft, the better job you can do as a writer/composer.

This is absolutely true! The song is everything! You have to have a quality product before you can gain any credibility at any level. But I still maintain that you have more of an opportunity to be credible in your own hometown than in walking into a publisher's office off the street in Nashville, where no one knows you at all.

Billy Joel did have a record contract, I believe, when he was in NYC...but he wasn't happy with it, so he rode it out until the term expired and then signed with another label. (Meanwhile he was writing great songs all the time and keeping the songs in his vault).

The other essentials are to understand how songs make money and to accept the fact that the music business as it was in the 80s and 90s no longer exists. If you don't have a solid grasp of those realities, you are a sitting duck for the many "sharks" out there. Learning to think differently about the music industry of today is almost as hard as learning to write with your left hand if you are right handed. But it's necessary if we want to remain relevant. We are well into the 21st Century and the "barn door" has been open for a decade. The horse is long gone. We have to deal with that.

[Teri]

Mary Dawson, on Jan 31 2010, 12:25 AM, said:

in my opinion, all of these online resources cannot replace getting to know YOUR OWN MUSIC COMMUNITY! There are great musicians and great singers in every city in the world. The problem is that we tend to keep looking to what used to be the Big Three in music...Nashville, LA and NYC...to find opportunities. Before you go looking to far away cities and resources, start looking right under your nose. You may find artists looking for songs with whom you can grow into the next big sensation. There are markets and opportunities waiting to be tapped right where you live, and where you live is the place you have the most credibility and the best possibilities for success.

Mary I agree that a potential recording artist could do his own study of music right there in his hometown, but in the long run I think he is going to have to get to one of the Big 3 to go further. A LOT can be accomplished though, in one's hometown, I agree. Learn all that you can through your collaborations. But also do self-study. It should all help, not hurt.

[FunkDaddy]

Actually, moving to one of the "Big 3" can be very counter-productive. There is nothing you can't do in any decently sized town that you need to be in L.A. or NYC for. Nashville is still the destination for songwriters but that becomes less and less true as more songwriters break the mold. Why be a big fish in a small pond? Chances are there's a whole lot of people already established in those 3 cities that are just as, or more likely much better, than you. The success stories these days are coming from MySpace and YouTube. I completely agree with Mary, look right in your own backyard before wasting time and money on a hoop dream built on the romanticism of moving to the big city to become a big star.

L.A. is for film.

NYC is for theater.

Music can be anywhere in the world. Thank you Internet

[Teri]

For independent artists, absolutely. For anything else, NO.

[FunkDaddy]

Teri, on Feb 15 2010, 10:15 AM, said:

For independent artists, absolutely. For anything else, NO.

And what is "anything else"? Somebody can get signed to a record label from any city in the world. Do you think all record labels are headquartered in NYC and L.A.? How do you think they get major label interest? By being a successful independant artist, not by moving to New York or L.A. and being one of thousands and thousands of the same type of artist looking for the same thing. You don't send your demo tape to a label and get signed (unsolicited material is thrown in the trash). They don't have time to schedule meetings with nobodies (and sorry but that's exactly what some random unknown artist is to a music label) nor do they take unscheduled meetings. So tell me what advantages you see in living in NYC or L.A. to pursue a music career?

[Teri]

It is like a computer programmer. He can work from home, but at some point he is going to have to go into the office and run his product through the network to see if it will work. Same for the musician – he is going to have to run his craft through a major hub to see if it is a go, to fine-tune it, to tweak the things that need tweaking, and to get the whole show on the road.

[FunkDaddy]

Poor analogy. A programmer can upload his code to the network from home and see if it works. He can e-mail it, FTP it, etc to the company and they do with it as they wish, the company will want him wherever he does his best work.

What I think you're failing to realize is that for music, the Internet is the major hub now. The revenue stream from digital downloads is increasing as CD sales decrease. MySpace and Facebook are the go-to for PR. Twitter is replacing autograph sessions. Touring bands promote their shows through MySpace, from the smallest to the biggest bands. People are publishing themselves, forgoing the record label system.

Why would somebody move to a major music scene to "tweak" their sound? If they still need tweaking, they are going to get swallowed alive by the artists who have already tweaked what needs tweaking ten times over. Like I said, it's a romantic notion of moving to the big city to follow the big dream, but it's an archaic view of the music business.

[Teri]

As I already stated, YOU ARE RIGHT, if you are independent, fine, go for the net stuff.

If you seek a certain level of recognition, another route will be needed.

This is my opinion and those who do not want to take it, fine. Alright by me. For those who have a different set of thinking skills might opt for thinking twice about what I have said.

Alright I'm off to do some homework. Bye now.

[Neal K]

Teri, on Feb 15 2010, 10:43 AM, said:

If you seek a certain level of recognition, another route will be needed.

What are we talking about? A career as a performing musician, or as a non-performing songwriter.

If it's a non-performing songwriter writing for famous artists, then I agree with Teri. Sooner or later your going to have to spend major time in a musical hub like Nashville, L.A. or New York.

But if you are a performing musician, I'm with Funk Daddy. You can carve out a niche anywhere and build on that. What's the difference between "independant" and "signed" anyway? All bands are "independant" when they start... and they usually start in their hometowns. I guess if you want to be a country artist you probably still have to go to Nashville, but other than that, what can be gained by moving to those hubs?

Also, Teri, I think your opinion is rather U.S.-centric. There are other countries in the world and there are many fine artists who hit the big time without ever once stepping on U.S. soil, let alone moving to Nashville, New York, or L.A. Take Canada, for instance. Nickleback is from Hanna, Alberta and they are now based out of Vancouver. Hardly one of the world's big music hubs. Sure, they tour the U.S. but they didn't move there. Celine Dion, from a tiny town in Quebec - she didn't have to move to a major music centre to hit the big time. Shania Twain - different story. Because she is a country artist she had to move to Nashville to make it.

The point is, if you seek a certain level of recognition, it would probably be career suicide to move to Nashville, New York or LA. Mark's right. The music hubs are in decline and the internet is the new music hub. I actually believe it would be outright foolish for an aspiring musician to move to a music hub in order to get established. Why do that when they can gig in their own hometown, build a following and grow from there? You don't have to think twice about that.

Neal

[Alistair S]

For an artist, building a following is all. That can be started from anywhere.

I'm not convinced that seeking out a "label" is a good move any more, either. There are good examples of broke people who can't get a job following a "career" with a label.

As for writing, I don't know. I'm not convinced that there is a big market for that any more, except in some specialist genres. Sure, if you can put together good hip-hop beats and get together with the right people, all may be good - or maybe you are steeped in country and write fabulously well and have a great network.

There is maybe a market in jingles and TV/Film music/songs - but you need to have consistently good songs, and have them well-produced from what I understand.

The alternative is to hook up with good performers who need songs. Which brings us back to step one. They can be anywhere. Having said that, they are probably attracted to the larger cities still. Over here, that is probably London and Manchester, mainly. There was a big Sheffield surge a while back. Newcastle has a shout - and Liverpool did OK once

It depends who is firing off who. A good set of musicians in a town, all trying to outdo each other, can work wonders - especially if they are creaiting a stir with the listening public.

[Mary Dawson]

I think this discussion is probably the most necessary and relevant one in music these days. It's the meeting of the 20th Century with the 21st Century. (May I suggest that you guys read and respond to the other topic on my forum..."Acquiring a 21st Century Mindset." Changing your thinking from what worked in music 15-20 years ago to what works now is almost like learning to write with your left hand if you have been right handed all your life. It doesn't feel good...it seems wrong...and it takes a heck of a lot of practice and work. But it can be done if you have to (like when I was a kid and broke my right arm).

In my opinion, moving to a "major music capitol" like Nashville or LA can really make you LESS creative and MORE "in the box" because of the high tendency to develop Group Think. Music industry people tend to look at each other and duplicate what was successful last year -- hence the number of "clones" that all tend to sound the same. It's the out-of-the-box artists who develop the following of fans that define real success.

In my book, "How to Get Somewhere in the Music Business from Nowhere with Nothing," I tell about Bart Millard, the lead singer and songwriter for the Christian group, "Mercy Me." They were doing 200 dates a year before they were ever even noticed by a label. They had to think long and hard as to whether or not they even needed a label -- they basically signed just to keep the administrative load off their backs, but because they had become so successful in the grassroots, they were able to write the contract with the label on their own terms Successes like this are occurring more and more frequently.

Or for a more recent phenom, check out "Owl City." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Owl_City Funk Daddy is absolutely right about the Internet being the "in" place to be now. I recently spoke to a songwriters' group whose members are still trying to "get a deal" in Nashville. One guy said, "But what if your dream is to get a song cut by a major artist in Nashville?" I said, "Fine...if you like dreams, keep dreaming. If you want to be successful, wake up to the 21st Century."

Music is FAR FAR BIGGER than the "industry." It will always find a way to re-invent itself because it is part of our RNA and DNA. People will always love and need music. Our challenge is to find markets and needs that haven't been met yet and then fill them with our excellently crafted songs! The markets are out there...right under our noses. We have to train our minds to find them.

[Teri]

It's not a matter of who is right and who is wrong, here. I think what it really boils down to is, the person's goals. What are they? That will determine a lot and help a musician guide how he strategizes his career. Some folks just want to stay in their home town and sing. Hey that's fine. I say as long as you are going after your goal, the soul is happy. Doesn't matter what that goal is.

Neal you seem very open-minded which I like, and I think you helped me realize just how US-Centric I was, in my earlier posts. I apologize for leaving out the rest of the world. It was not intentional. I know that we have received some great music from musicians from Canada (Neil Young), Australia (The Little River Band), and England (Hollies, etc), and other areas.

You can do songwriting anywhere, but development of an artist really requires the person be there to sign documents, collaborate, meet photographers, the press, etc. Or if you can travel then that's great. You still have to be there in person to get things done. A perfect example is Taylor Swift. We all know her parents relocated her to Nashville, and lookie at her now. But she had to be there, and her family moved her. Her goal was specific and that guided her as to what she should do. So again, it really matters what the person's goals are. They can work from there.

[Alistair S]

With all due respect, what "can happen" and what is likely to happen are two different things.

It doesn't matter what a person's goals are. It matter what they do, how they network and how they build something. Where they live may help if they live in a cultural wilderness, but they can live anywhere and make a good living.

Of course they will have to travel if they want to make it as an artist. There simply aren't enough people in one town to make up a new audience on enough nights to pay the bills. It is also important to travel to build a wider audience (though you can always start in your home town).

I can be in the States on the same day that I set off from the UK. If I really need to have my photo taken there, I can do it. I have a friend who makes his money touring Europe. He wants some dates in Japan now (he thinks they could clean up there, and he may be right). Is a "label" involved? Nope. They formed their own... http://www.verglas.com/

The day of the artist being picked up and then building a following is all but gone (bar glorified karaoke competitions run by Simon Cowell). If a company is going to "invest" (which often means spending your future earnings) they do so only if the risk is minimal. This means choosing someone already known or with a following of some sort. This could be a Paris Hilton or it could be a band/artist who has demonstrated that they can build a fan-base.

There is little money in the music itself any more. The writing is on the wall. The money comes from tours and merchandising and any other angle that can be thought up. Video killed the radio star, and now MTV don't bother with videos much either. Times change.

[FunkDaddy]

Teri, on Feb 16 2010, 02:16 PM, said:

A perfect example is Taylor Swift. We all know her parents relocated her to Nashville, and lookie at her now.

And look at the rest of the people who relocated to Nashville with the exact same dream.

There's nothing inherently wrong with moving to Nashville, L.A. or NYC to pursue a music career, but it is far from necessary and ultimately foolish in my opinion. There are industries where being in the right city is necessary, music simply isn't one of them anymore and the necessity of living in Nashville for songwriters is shrinking by the day.

[Susan R]

As one of the foolish people, in less than a year I am getting a few studio sessions, Working with a publisher as the music person on co-writes, and have a agent that likes my live solo music enough to be working on a European tour this Summer. And am doing some small mastering jobs as a sort of sub contractor. Nashville sure Suks.

[FunkDaddy]

Susan R, on Feb 16 2010, 10:00 PM, said:

As one of the foolish people, in less than a year I am getting a few studio sessions, Working with a publisher as the music person on co-writes, and have a agent that likes my live solo music enough to be working on a European tour this Summer. And am doing some small mastering jobs as a sort of sub contractor. Nashville sure Suks.

If you're trying to make a point it's lost on me because none of that pertains to the subject at hand. There are recording studios in every city (and no offense but I highly doubt you are doing session work for any major Nashville studio, which would be more in line with this discussion) I could work with a publisher from anywhere in the world and any band that builds up it's fanbase enough will draw the attention of tour promoters and agents.

None of what you've listed requires you being in Nashville.

[Susan R]

I'd have to care about what a person thinks to bother making a point.

[Mary Dawson]

Quote

It's not a matter of who is right and who is wrong, here. I think what it really boils down to is, the person's goals. What are they? That will determine a lot and help a musician guide how he strategizes his career. Some folks just want to stay in their home town and sing. Hey that's fine. I say as long as you are going after your goal, the soul is happy. Doesn't matter what that goal is.

This is absolutely right. But I think that the changes in the music world have brought about an opportunity for us to return to some loftier goals than those that have dominated the industry for the last several decades. We have an opportunity to make Music the real goal...to return to true creativity and art for art's sake, rather than to only seek our own fame and fortune. If we see ourselves as "trusted servants" of the gift of Music, we will look for ways to share that gift with others who need what we have to offer. That will take us to opportunities and "markets" that others have missed.

For example, I recently began to correspond with the founder of an organization that supports the families of deployed military personnel. I discovered that these families are really struggling with some very unique challenges while their spouses and parents are away. They need encouragement and uplifting. They need songs that speak to them. Long story short, I am now writing the theme song for this organization where there are no other songwriters around. It was a vacuum that needed filling, and by looking for a way to help and serve them, I discovered an audience of eager people that number in the tens of thousands.

I think it's time for each of us who writes songs to do a little soul searching, re-examine our goals and perhaps re-invent ourselves to invest our gifts for the needs of this new generation.

[Teri]

Susan R, on Feb 16 2010, 09:00 PM, said:

As one of the foolish people, in less than a year I am getting a few studio sessions, Working with a publisher as the music person on co-writes, and have a agent that likes my live solo music enough to be working on a European tour this Summer. And am doing some small mastering jobs as a sort of sub contractor. Nashville sure Suks.

Go eat 'em up in Nash, Susan!!!!!!!

[FunkDaddy]

Susan R, on Feb 17 2010, 12:23 AM, said:

I'd have to care about what a person thinks to bother making a point.

So you really were just rambling

If you didn't care about what I think why bother trying to antagonize me in the first place? You obviously care since you quoted me in your original passive aggressive addition to the discussion, so why cop out now claiming not to care what I think? It's bush league.

[blindcommissioner]

as someone new to both this site and to taking songwriting seriously this thread has been great.

it seems there's lots of people with a wealth of knowledge and experience on here.

this is what i've been looking for.

thanks for all the comments, i've found it very useful

andy

[the songcabinet]

Nicolej, on 25 August 2009 - 08:54 PM, said:

Hi
Any of you got any experience with sites like these or is it a waste of money?
http://taxi.com/
http://www.songlink.com/index.html
http://www.songquarters.com/
http://www.songu.com/
http://broadjam.com/?

Does anybody know other sites like these? And are these recommendable?

Nicolej Brink
www.myspace.com/nicolejbrink

For others visiting this thread, I'd like to add that these companies (SongU, Taxi, Songlink ect) are NOT publishers by any means. These companies are only CONNECTING you with publishers that looks for particular material ect. So, even if Taxi, SongU or anyone else love your music, there's no guarantee that you'll end up with a deal.

These companies are great to learn what types of material the current market (publishers, a&r, music supervisors ect.) are looking for (from "outside writers" or "indie artists", which is musicians/songwriters that does not have connections in the music business), and for making inroads into the music business, getting to know some people, and if you can deliver, get a few deals to start with. The reason these companies can help you is that there's pretty much a closed door policy in the music business if you don't have any referrals. They can help you get heard for the right opportunities, which in some cases makes the road shorter. So, it can be worth it, both as a way to find your niche, learn about the business side of music, and get a bunch of similar minded friends.

But, even if you do pursue the opportunities from these middlemen, you should still seek out your own opportunities and every other avenue you can think of. These can be starting points if you have music that fits into what the market is currently looking for, but they are NOT publishers and certainly not an end in itself.

[Roger]

FunkDaddy, on 16 February 2010 - 04:30 PM, said:

Teri, on Feb 16 2010, 02:16 PM, said:

A perfect example is Taylor Swift. We all know her parents relocated her to Nashville, and lookie at her now.

And look at the rest of the people who relocated to Nashville with the exact same dream.

There's nothing inherently wrong with moving to Nashville, L.A. or NYC to pursue a music career, but it is far from necessary and ultimately foolish in my opinion. There are industries where being in the right city is necessary, music simply isn't one of them anymore and the necessity of living in Nashville for songwriters is shrinking by the day.

If your intention is to make a living as a songwriter in the country genre, your last statement is completely incorrect. One question I am asked consistently is "can I make it as a songwriter if I don't live in Nashville" and my answer is always the same....sure you can - you can also possibly win the lottery if you buy a lottery ticket, and your odds are probably about the same.

By not living in Nashville, or at the very least making frequent trips to Nashville, you do not have the networking opportunities necessary to get your songs to the right people at the right time. There are pitch sheets available, but most of them are inaccurate or out of date, and by the time your songs get submitted to the correct person the recording is already complete.

Again, I prefaced my comments with the assumption that the intention was being successful as a country songwriter, since Nashville was mentioned specifically.