Muse's Muse Songwriting Message Board: Critique Form - Muse's Muse Songwriting Message Board

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Forum Rules

>Please use the “Forum Guidelines” link at the top of the screen to read General Policies.
>Remember that these songs are only going to be kept up here a maximum of 30 days. Keep a backup of your work.

Rules for Posting a Song:
1) Please critique 2 or more songs for every song you post.
2) Please post only one song per day.
3) Please keep it tasteful i.e. no overt sexuality or obscene, offensive language, etc.
4) Please indicate the intended genre below the title of your song, and also what kind of a critique you're after. Is this a song that you'll be promoting commercially? Is it a song you wrote simply because you wanted to and you'd like to make it better? The more info people have, the better they'll be able to give you the kind of feedback you're after. And please PLEASE note - if you're not really after critique at all, don't post here. The Artist's Cafe is happy to hear your completed songs. This is the place to post if you want honest feedback and are prepared to take what is given (what you do with it, is of course, up to you).
5) Please post the lyrics along with the clickable link to your song's music.
6) Only post songs you have written or have permission to post. Please don't post cover songs.
7) It is polite to acknowledge critiques, but please don’t overdo it by “bumping” your thread to the top too frequently.
8) If you revise the song, please give a date and post on the same thread, or folks will unknowingly still comment on the old one.
9) Please be sure to visit other areas of the board to both learn and spread your knowledge.

Rules for Critiquing a Song:
1) The purpose of this forum is to promote better song writing by providing encouragement and constructive feedback focused on improvement. Strive to be courteous and respectful in your critiques, keeping in mind that we all come to this forum with different perspectives, genre preferences and levels of experience.
2) Offer constructive criticism and suggestions you think may help the writer make the most of his or her vision of where they want to go with their song.
3) If you think something really works, say so. Make an attempt to say why you think it does. If you see areas you think could be improved, explain why you believe they need improvement and offer suggestions, if you have any.

Anonymity often helps us forget that there is a person at the other end of our critique. Imagine, if you can, that you are speaking to the writer face to face.

Thanks!
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Critique Form optional (but really helpful) *wink*

#1 User is offline   bubblingsoul Icon

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Posted 01 July 2007 - 10:17 AM

This form is provided as a quick but entirely optional method for critiquing lyrics and/or completed songs. If you'd like more info/directing questions on what some of the categories might explore - please visit this link. (Most are self-explanatory tho.)

For the Critiquer: After each category, provide as much detailed or general comments as you desire. You may even rate on a number scale defined by you if you wish. (You may either get the form here - or, if the lyric/song poster provided an alternate in their post - use that!)

For the Critiquee: Cut and paste this form into your initial lyric or song post - and use "as is" or customize the categories to cover what you'd like potential critiquers to focus regarding your lyric/song.


<------------------------- copy this ------------------------->
[color=blue][B]CRITIQUE:[/B][/color]
				  [B]Emotional impact:[/B]  
				  [B]Strength of hook/title:[/B]  
				  [B]Originality:[/B]  
				  [B]Appeal:[/B]  
				  [B]Focus:[/B]  
				  [B]Phrasing/cadence:[/B]  
				  [B]Form:[/B]  
				  [B]Verbiage:[/B]  
				  -----------------
				  [B]Arrangement:[/B]  
				  [B]Instrumentation:[/B]  
				  [B]Musicianship:[/B]  
				  [B]Strength of Melody/prosody:[/B]  
				  [B]Vocal delivery:[/B]  
				  [B]Backing vox:[/B]  
				  [B]Collaboration effort:[/B]  
				  [B]Recording mix/technical:[/B]  
				  -----------------
				  [B]Other comments/questions:[/B]


The beauty of this form is that it is as completely customizable as you desire!
Here's a quick guide on how to use it:
    1. With your cursor, highlight the text in the orange code box above.
    2. Copy the text using either File->Copy (in your browser), or CRTL-C (using the quick keys)
    3. Paste the text using either File->Paste (in your browser), or CTRL-V (using the quick keys)
    4. You may change the category "tags" by simply highlighting and retyping what you'd prefer.
    ***NOTE: be sure to keep the 'B' and the '/b' as bookends and in their brackets.***
    5. You may also delete or add category tags as you wish.
    6. Type your brief or detailed comments AFTER each closed tag.
An example on how to use it will be provided below. ;)

~Bubbles

#2 User is offline   bubblingsoul Icon

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Posted 01 July 2007 - 10:18 AM

Here is the sample in how it might be modified and used:

Frame It
Denise Vrana ©2007

Window blinds make stripes on the wall
The early morning sun starts it's vibrant scrawl
Both point to the fact a new day's begun
So, how am I gonna frame it?

No matted intentions
Or complex inventions
Over exposure
But maybe some closure
So now in the darkroom
I cast off my costume
There's no shame in it
It's how I frame it

My feet hit the floor with brisk velocity
No pretense of religiosity
I count my blessings and offer up my thanks
That's how I'm gonna frame it!

Though it's not vogue,
I won't be a rogue


LYRIC CRITIQUE (self):
Emotional impact: Sassy, but encouraging - works for me. ;)
Strength of hook/title: Okay, but will be strengthened further with supporting rythym/music.
Originality:
Appeal: There could be commercial appeal in the right market.
Focus: A little confusing at first, but by the chorus - worked itself out.
Phrasing/cadence: Ahhhhh! This was a bugger. Completely inconsistent cadence from verse one to two.
Form: Follows a traditional form. Might want to label each section in future. The bridge seems a little too short - might want to expand the idea further.
Verbiage: Paints a picture and uses interesting (but not forced or conventional) rhymes, nice job! :lol: ;)


Yes. Yes. I'm talking out my ____ on the crit - but it's only posted here as a sample of how the form can be customized. Since it is a lyric only piece, I deleted the categories that don't apply. I also changed the heading at the top to reflect that this is a self-crit.

If you'd like practice cutting and pasting the form, please feel free to try it here. (I will ask that the thread be pruned occasionally - after you've had a chance to try it here before letting loose on a REAL post. ;) )

~Bubbles :D


#3 User is offline   NigeQ Icon

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Posted 01 July 2007 - 01:48 PM

Bubblingsoul has kindly drawn up this critique form which is purely optional but you may find it useful.

I will leave this thread open for a while in case anyone has any comments or wants to discuss. In the mean time if you want to use this template for either posting your song or your critique please do so.

Cheers

Nige :)

#4 User is offline   jay23 Icon

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Posted 02 July 2007 - 07:40 PM

I don't know. It strikes me as some kind of score card and I'm not sure I like that idea. What's wrong with how folks are commenting now?

Jay

#5 User is offline   bubblingsoul Icon

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Posted 03 July 2007 - 06:55 AM

Hi Jay,

Well, it is optional - and that was stated at the outset. It won't be for everyone, but is provided for those who wish to have some structure - both song poster and critiquer.

This was not dreamt up out of thin air (though it did get lost there for a little while :lol: ). It was the result of a discussion and subsequent idea in THIS THREAD. (Read through it if you'd like the full scoop.)

While I do agree, many of us have our own style and method of critiquing - sometimes that doesn't always match what the lyric/songwriter is seeking. And also, we have more than just seasoned lyricist and musicians here . . . we have newbies as well. This is just another tool to support the growth of both the seasoned and newbie in discovering, exploring and developing their craft.

I'm grateful for any comments I get on my stuff, from a simple one-liner of support - to a detailed critique. Folks are sometimes limited on the amount of time they can spend posting crits/songs. This can be used in either circumstance . . . or not! :lol: It's really up to you!

The structure of the form aids the critiquer in staying focused - and maybe providing some reminder on what could possibly be commented on. When used consistently, it would also allow the lyricist/songwriter to immediately see how many listeners/viewers had issues with the same portion of their piece. And this, in turn, might help them decide why they perhaps should and how they could fine tune their piece.

It does have benefits all around. ;)

But really - take it or leave it. If it's not for you - that's okay. You won't be hurting my feelings if you don't use it at all! <_< :unsure: :( :angry: :P :lol:

~Bubbles :rolleyes:

#6 User is offline   jay23 Icon

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Post icon  Posted 04 July 2007 - 01:55 PM

Hi Bubbles:
Well, thanks for working on that. But I think I'll take you up on the offer of not using it :) For myself, I think I would for the most part just be blowing smoke trying to rate some of these catagories, like originality, appeal or emotional impact.

Jay

#7 User is offline   bubblingsoul Icon

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Posted 05 July 2007 - 10:40 PM

Was never a problem, Jay! ;)

~Bubbles :)

#8 User is offline   LTH Icon

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Posted 06 January 2009 - 02:39 AM

I like the Form as I feel it gives a complete forum of thought to make a good crit.


LTH

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Posted 08 January 2009 - 03:43 PM

If the critiqee wishes to have his/her post reviewed in that format then maybe it should be accompanied by such a request. As for me, I have trouble typing simple comments much less (or is it more) figuring out how to paste and move things around to get to that critiqeer format. I'll do it for those who request it if I can conquer my fear of doing something I might destroy because I don't know what I'm doing.

#10 User is offline   Alistair S Icon

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Posted 08 January 2009 - 04:18 PM

I think it may be a useful check-list.

However, personally, I don't like it when it's used to give feedback - mostly because I have never learned anything useful from feedback given this way. I'd rather people just said what they thought.
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"In my opinion this is a bunch of filth and garbage and we need far less this type of lyrics gettin back in the ears of our children." - from a critique received

"When I was 5 years old, my mum always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wante to be when I grew up. I wrote down, "Happy". The told me I didn't understand the assignment and I told them they didn't understand life." John Lennon.

#11 User is offline   Salley Gardens Icon

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Posted 08 January 2009 - 06:18 PM

The beauty of this form is realized for people who have trouble giving a critique. It was never meant to replace or govern critiques given by people who do so comfortably. Even for those happy with their own style, it's helpful to see the myriad of ways to look at a song. :)

#12 User is offline   MysteryMike Icon

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Posted 08 January 2009 - 06:29 PM

View PostAlistair S, on Jan 8 2009, 04:18 PM, said:

I'd rather people just said what they thought.


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#13 User is offline   Alistair S Icon

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Posted 08 January 2009 - 06:46 PM

Damn .. that's fighting talk! :lol:

... fair comment though!
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"In my opinion this is a bunch of filth and garbage and we need far less this type of lyrics gettin back in the ears of our children." - from a critique received

"When I was 5 years old, my mum always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wante to be when I grew up. I wrote down, "Happy". The told me I didn't understand the assignment and I told them they didn't understand life." John Lennon.

#14 User is offline   rayj Icon

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Posted 19 February 2009 - 09:14 PM

Hello...I'm a "newbie" so I like the form...at least it is a starting point for those of us who have not done much critiquing...

Ray

#15 User is offline   dhess Icon

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Posted 11 August 2009 - 10:22 PM

I guess I did something wrong. Had some great feedback to help me move forward but my post was deleted. Please help me undewrstand

#16 User is offline   yacht rocker Icon

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Post icon  Posted 28 August 2009 - 12:10 PM

View Postdhess, on Aug 11 2009, 10:22 PM, said:

I guess I did something wrong. Had some great feedback to help me move forward but my post was deleted. Please help me undewrstand



Just like when working on any document on a computer: Save early and save often!

Ever since the early days of the Web, I have learned this lesson the hard way. I'd be in the middle of some long, complex forum post or email or registration form, and the computer would freeze or I'd lose my dialup connection or my login would time out or the form would "reset" before I finished and ... damn! All that work for nothing.

So now I habitually save everything I'm working on. It's an automatic reflex now.... it's like scratching my butt, I don't even realize I'm doing it. :unsure:

I make sure to

1) Copy to the clipboard every minute or so. (CTRL + A, then CTRL +C -- very simple).

2) Copy again when the product is finished and ready to send.

That way, if anything goofy happens (the Internet is slow, you got disconnected from your prehistoric dialup connection, your neighbor's Wifi signal just went out again, your login session has timed out unbeknownst to you) and the post doesn't go through, it's saved and you can just

3) regurgitate it with a quick CTRL + V, rather than rack your brains and waste time trying to remember and re-compose it all.

This has saved my sanity countless times.

(And by the way, if you don't already know the basic keyboard shortcuts, by all means learn them. You can find them via "Help" in any Windows program. If you're on Mac, I'd suspect you find the Mac shortcuts the same way.)

Even when writing emails, I am compulsively using the copy-to-clipboard method and/or copying and saving in a Wordpad document. I never rely totally on the "Save Draft" function since I use web-based mail (Hotmail) and there's no guarantee your draft will make it to the server in order to be saved every time. Best save it at home first.

Wordpad saving will also protect you against system lockups, which, if you're using most Windows products, seem to be inevitable -- right along with death and taxes.

Time for me to copy and then send this post ....
crank it all the way up to ?smooth?!

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#17 User is offline   mike@thejottedline Icon

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 08:00 PM

One more vote for: I like it.

People can say what they want either with this format or without.

I think it will help when you might want to give someone some feedback but might not be sure how to start.

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