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About Rick D: A.N.T.I.'s experiences (and others)

#51 User is offline   Helicon1 Icon

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  • Interests:I live in East Texas where I own a recording studio and operate a small independent record label. I produce and engineer all styles of music from Country to R&amp;B to Rap.<br>I write songs in several styles also, mainly Country, R&amp;B, Gospel, and my own style of Rock. I believe that all genres of music have something worthwhile and relevant to add to our lives, and that there is no such thing as a good or bad style - only good and bad songs.<br>I play guitar, sax, keys, and harmonica, and I am by no means a virtuoso on any of them. I play decent enough to get it right eventually, but when I have the choice I prefer to let someone else do in an hour what would take me 3 hours to get it good enough to go on an album.<br>My real talents are songwriting, producing, and engineering. they are also my passion. <br>I also do freelance acoustical consulting for individuals building their own studios, schools, nightclubs, businesses, and churches who need help with their sound issues.<br>I truly enjoy doing my job because not many other jobs provide the opportunity to combine both technical expertise and artistic creativity at the same time.<br>I look forward to the discussions on this board, and getting to know you.

Posted 23 July 2004 - 12:39 AM

Yeah, and a bear don't sh** in the woods. B)

#52 User is offline   RLD Icon

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Posted 23 July 2004 - 01:00 AM

"We won't get fooled again"...

RLD
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Posted 23 July 2004 - 10:08 AM

Anti - that's good if he is trying to make ammends. The apology and explanation is a start - and certainly farther on than you were before. But it would be best if you can get what Mr Rick Dee originally offered. Best for you, him, and everyone if he delivers on what he intended.

Can't resist a wise saying here:

SILENCE IS CONSENT!

Also ANTI - could you ask Rick D to come to the Muse to explain to us too on this thread. It would be good if you could. We have participated in this story therefore we have become involved. The questions concerning his behavior have been public as posted on the Muse forum, so it would be good if he has the public space (HERE THIS THREAD) to put his side of the story/explanation.

#54 User is offline   lillyorthefury Icon

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Posted 23 July 2004 - 10:41 AM

Yeah, just let us know if and when he *IS* coming, so I can edit my post first. :(

EDIT: There I go, defending...

#55 User is offline   A.N.T.I. Icon

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Posted 23 July 2004 - 12:16 PM

He has read this thread so I'm sure any requests that have come up for him to get on here and reply have reached him. I will let him know next time he calls though. I'm just not trying to get my hopes up.. it sucks.
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#56 User is offline   Marty g Icon

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Posted 23 July 2004 - 02:17 PM

So Russ, after all you have been through, are you sure this is genuine?

I mean it must have been one hell of an explaination. I am willing to give Rick the benifit of the doubt, however, with the enourmity and extent of all this I just hope Rick understands and appreciates what he has done here. If the stories all through this thread are true, and I have no reason to doubt any of it, it seems the task of putting things straight is HUGE. I for one havent heard anything from any of the guys yet, but then technically, due to our agreement, I ended up not paying monies anyway so maybe I dont qualify for this replenishment, tho I would like to at least hear my songs..lol

Russ, just be real shrude from now on mate, ask for proof of everything, Im sure the guys will understand, after all it would be ludicrous NOT to understand that you want reassurance at every step of the way from now on.

Good Luck Bud

m

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Posted 28 July 2004 - 02:45 PM

ANTI - I feel we are left hanging. Let's have all the story - please. I'm dying to know ALL the details!

I'm starting to think Rick may have been placating and satisfying one of his victims, with a view to keeping the others off his back. Union breaking tactics!

Come out RICK - your audience is waiting.

#58 User is offline   Sandrabond Icon

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Posted 02 August 2004 - 03:20 AM

Hi John: (and all)
I haven't been able to get back to these boards in a long time, and when I read the posting about Rick my stomach hit the floor. I mentioned to John many months ago, that I knew him. I have never been in the business of bad-mouthing anyone without proof, so I kept my personal dealings and that of my clients to myself.
If you recall there was a posting asking for information on a song shark company in Nashville, and I danced my way around saying "Stay Away" by pointing out that anytime anyone asks you for money in regard to your music, run.
Anyway, several people I represent have stated that they had been ripped off by Rick in the past. However, he is some-what well known, and a small company like myself cannot stay in business by making unfounded allegations.
I want to point out "unfounded", most of the time you will get an oral contract or a very loose open-ended contract which in the end promises you nothing.
I cannot say strongly enough - Get an attorney, preferably an entertainment attorney who will be familliar with most scams, and knows how to read the fine print.
Most importantly you should never pay to have a producer, artist or publisher demo your songs. Further be very careful about contests where you send in lyrics and they send you a contract in which you pay to have music written for your song. Most of the time the music is the same for several hundred people, and they will own 1/2 the copyright on your dime.
I have met Rick at various functions, but I do not know him personally, so I cannot speak to his guilt or innoncence - simply that I have been told by my clients that he ripped them off. My clients came to me shortly after they claim they were ripped off.

In this case the only thing it cost you was your time and hope, but if you ask me that can be more precious than any dollar amount. I'm so sorry to hear about what happened to you.

Sorry to hear about all of this,
Sandra Bonadonna
BOND Music Publishing

#59 User is offline   Marty g Icon

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Posted 02 August 2004 - 03:34 PM

Quote

Most importantly you should never pay to have a producer, artist or publisher demo your songs.


Sandra, this confuses me, as I have always understood that some companies provide a demo service, bona fide, that is to say they take your songs and produce a pitchable demo for a fee, are you saying never to use these services either? I mean even the Guild of International Songwriters & Composers offers such services and these are the very kind of groups thats are set up to guide and assist us people. I use/used a production services, are you saying it may be unscrupulous?
Can you give a very brief ( and free, sorry) description of what rights if any a producer has over your work if he/she creates a full production of a song, please? pretty please?

Preciate it

marty

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Posted 02 August 2004 - 05:29 PM

Marty,

I would assume the Sandra was not talking about paying someone to produce a demo. I think she was probably talking about someone who acts as a publisher or producer and promises you big things if you pay them $x. What it comes down to is if you sign some contract that gives the publisher or producer an interest in your work down the road, THEY should be paying for the demos or whatever. I think that is what she was trying to get at. But of course, she can come in and correct me if I misunderstood.

Having a demo studio record a demo for you is fine and maybe necessary. In fact some smaller, yet reputable, publishing companies will insist that you give them a pitchable demo as they can't afford to do demos on everything they pitch. Works out the same in the end (assuming your song makes any money) because the publisher generally recoups the demo cost anyway ;). Larger publishers will be more willing to take on the risk of the demo costs.

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Posted 03 August 2004 - 01:35 AM

Yes, John that is exactly what I meant. If a publisher wants to publish your song - they pay for the demo. Be very wary of promises to help you make it big when it's on your dime.
I only offer a bit of advice, I've heard terrible stories about unscrupulous people taking advantage of creative people. We all want the next big hit, or to become the next big star, and the truth is there is simply no easy road to get there, and if someone tries to sell you the easy road, look twice - better yet let an attorney do the looking for you.

Sandra

#62 User is offline   Marty g Icon

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Posted 03 August 2004 - 11:53 AM

Quote

Can you give a very brief ( and free, sorry) description of what rights if any a producer has over your work if he/she creates a full production of a song, please? pretty please?

Preciate it


Thatll be a NO then? lol

#63 User is offline   Sandrabond Icon

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Posted 03 August 2004 - 08:47 PM

Marty g, on Aug 3 2004, 11:53 AM, said:

Quote

Can you give a very brief ( and free, sorry) description of what rights if any a producer has over your work if he/she creates a full production of a song, please? pretty please?

Preciate it


Thatll be a NO then? lol

I'm not sure I understand the question, but did you sign any rights over? If you haven't, then you retain all rights to your creative works. Clarify the question a bit, and I will do my best to answer.

Sorry, I only check in here every know and then - I have been very busy lately. I will do my best to answer any questions you have though.

Sandra Bonadonna

#64 User is offline   John Scott Icon

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Posted 04 August 2004 - 10:10 PM

Update?

OK?I told you guys I was going to do a little research. I have found out something. I contacted the manager of an artist that has been working with Rick (Russ knows who she is). I will give you the full text of the response except for changing the names. Russ knows Rick was working with this artist as well, so I think between the two of us we can vouch for the source?

Quote

Hi John,

  This is Buck Rodgers, BDBDBD?s dad & Manager. The CD is done and will be released soon. The Web Site is down but will be up & running within 5-7 days. Also, a video will be completed in the months ahead when BDBDBD has time, she will be going to college in the fall. We have had a very good working relationship with Rick and he has put a lot of time & money into BDBDBD's project and has not ask us for any money. We feel he is a man of his word! My daughter co-wrote 5 of the songs on the new album and pick all the songs that will be on the album. Rick is a very talented individual. Sorry you feel the way you do and we do not believe he would screw anyone unless there was a very good reason. His ex-partner was the one who was not handling things right and Rick is no longer associated with him. There are always two sides to a story and before people start judging one another they shound make sure they have all the true facts.

Larry


Now?don?t hate me because I post the results of what I am finding ;). I?m just posting what I have found. Unvarnished.

I also was able to talk to Rick this evening. I won?t get into all the reasons given for what happened, but suffice it to say he took the blame for people not getting what they were promised as it was ultimately his responsibility. He also assured me that he would contact the people who were affected by this and make things right. I will let him hash out the terms of ?making it right? with the individuals, but it sounded fair to me.

I am not a shill for Rick, but I ultimately like to be fair. How about this? There are 4 or 5 people here (including me) who are involved in this. If you are one of these folks and Rick comes through for you, why don?t we post that here in this thread as well? This is kind of a public record and in all fairness, I think we should let people know if amends are made. If they aren?t, then the record will stand.

Whaddaya think?

:)

#65 User is online   Jodi Krangle Icon

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Posted 04 August 2004 - 10:39 PM

I'm perfectly fine with posting the results of research here - whoever's side they support.

But I would very much like to know if Rick does contact the folks here who think they've been done wrong by.

Ultimately, this whole deal annoys the hell outta me. I feel responsible for promoting someone I thought was legitimate - only to have people dissatisfied. That reflects badly on me and this site, and I don't like it. Not one bit.

If Rick would like to log in and defend himself, this is the thread for it. I'm certainly willing to listen. But I really hope he's planning on making ammends. A.N.T.I. certainly didn't deserve to be treated like that.

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#66 User is offline   Juan_M Icon

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Posted 05 August 2004 - 03:59 PM

John Scott, on Jul 15 2004, 06:30 PM, said:

I have been doing a little investigating in the last couple of weeks and wasn?t going to say anything until I had a little more to back me up. When Russ made his first post, I got a sinking feeling and contacted him. I didn?t get all of the details he posted here (my request for them from Russ, was probably lost when the board went down). I also haven?t been around here for a few days, so this is the first I read of this new thread. From what I read here it pretty much cinches it for me.

It is a possibility that he had done similar things on another songwriting board a couple years back. I am in the process of contacting a few people that I know there to get more information. I will share that here when I get it. Until I get more info, however, I will not discuss any details. However, I will say, it doesn?t smell good so far.

Apparently, Rick is using my name as a reference of some sort. Russ said he mentioned my name to him somewhere in this process and I was contacted by another member here who he had given my name to who, unfortunately, I recommended Rick before the poo hit the fan. I feel terrible about that and have apologized and we have made our peace (he sent money and got nothing back as well).

Ok, so I'm that guy, the one that (I think) contacted John about Rick to begin with, and I can't believe I missed this thread (thanks John for letting me know).

My story sounds pretty much like anyone else's here: he claimed to know such and such person and contacted me asking about a song of mine for a project he was about to produce for a Sony new artist. On that same call he let me know about the demos. After some days of e-mails and working out the details with him and Robert I sent the money. Rick even sent me a rough track of the first of my songs that actually sounded pretty good. In March 20 something he left me a message saying he had got my e-mails but his account was messed up so he couldn't asnwer. That was the last thing I heard form him. I then talked to John about it, as well as other people that had worked with him. Again, no one had nothng bad to say about him.

I also did my research before working with him. Jamie Beaver was the name that convinced me since she's from my wife's hometown, I've seen her CD's on stores, I've seen her perform and know she's the real deal. I thought "if she's worked with Rick, he must be the readl deal too".
For a while I didn't know what to do. On one hand I wanted to come here and let everyone know about it but as far as I knew he coulda been run by a car or get sick or whatever and I didn't want to rant when I didn't know what was going on. Besides, I got the feeling that he was an honest person and that somethng wrogn had happened to him. I guess he fooled us all.
Then I tried to contact him sending him certified letters and stuff like that. When that didn't work I asked a lawyer friend of mine what I can do about it. Rick must be a lucky man because my friend just got a baby so he had to put this thing on hold for a while. That was a couple of weeks ago. Now that I read about Rick wanting to fix this, I'm willing to let it go as long as he sends me my money back. So rick, if you're reading this, you know my address (if you don't, send me an e-mail and I'll give it to you). Send me a nice money order for $550 and I'll forget about it. I don't even care for apoligies or even the demos (it's funny that yesterday I got the demo of the same song I was planning to do with him from some other studio), just send me my money back.

Russ, I'm sorry to hear your heartbreaking story, it must have sucked big time. I hope you get over it soon. I'm also sorry for the other guys. To me it hasn't been that bad, though I get pissed every time I think about the money.

So far he hasn't contacted me and I'll keep you updated if he does. I like to be fair and I'll eventually have a not too bad opinion of him if he gives me my money back.


Juan
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#67 User is offline   Marty g Icon

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Posted 06 August 2004 - 11:12 AM

If Rick or whoever has a good reason for all this and has convinced someone such as John (whom I trust) that things werent as bad as they seemed then I for one am happy to forgive and forget. Although the depth and quanitiy of all the stories in this thread still worry me that this is all some big missunderstanding, I mean, theres a lot of holes in this and there must be one hell of an explaination. As I said however I would back Rick up to the hilt once I was convinced it wasnt an intentional event for anyone.
Now my story is a little different as due to a the mail between here and Canada failing in some way, no money ever changed hands in my case, I sent it to another member here as part payment but it never arrived and the cheque wasnt cashed. Therefore I have lost no money, but I did (apparently) have a demo completed according to Robert P, which he promised to mail me but never did. Now as i didnt pay in the end, I dont expect the demo, but I would like to know what became of it, was it actually completed and if so can it be destroyed, or I would buy it from rick if I was satisfied with the result, cant say fairer than that. Its just the thought of a piece of my work being produced and dissapearing that saddens me.
I want to believe that this is all a big mistake but bits of the stories like Russ's experience with the false calls to/from Sony etc just dont make sense, I cant see how that was a mistake, it still appears as a diliberate intention to decieve to me. I dunno, i want Ricks name put right, the part demo i got for "Couldve Been Right" which was never completed IMO was very good, I loved it so Ricks talent certainly isnt in question here.

So Rick, dont worry about settling things with me, I expect nothing exept info on wether the demos of mine do exist or not, just for peace of mind, my songs are important to me. If you do get in contact, I wont bite sir.

M

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Posted 06 August 2004 - 12:08 PM

I feel you are being far too forgiving Juan. Your $550 dollars may be no big deal to you and the messing about hasn't broken your heart, but what about all the people who have ended up in a financial mess and are depressed by what he's done. The fact that he contacted ANTI on hearing about this thread indicates he suddenly has a conscience when it comes to a matter of his public reputation. The guy sounds similar to any other Hugh Janus. Don't make it such an easy decision on his part to get up to his dishonest and underhand shennanigans again. He's messing with peoples lives, hopes and dreams.

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Posted 06 August 2004 - 01:20 PM

I see what you mean, but I can only take actions for what he did to me. That doesn't mean I don't think what he did to ANTI was one of the worst stories I've heard in this business, but at this point all I want is to get my money back and forget about the whole thing. I guess ANTI will take care of his relationship with him the way he thinks he should.
I get very mad everytime I think about this and all I want is to get my money back and move on. I don't like to be mad.

Juan
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Posted 06 August 2004 - 01:24 PM

I know feeling mad is uncomfortable - but it's righteous rage. Better to express it coherently to get some justice for yourself and others. If you try and ignore your rage it will come up at an unexpected time and place. At least there's energy in feeling mad.

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Posted 06 August 2004 - 02:36 PM

Marty & all,

First, thank you Marty for your trust. That means an enormous amount to me. I have put myself in a bit of a precarious position here, I think, in my quest for the truth. Let me just clarify my position based on your comments above.

I would not say I am convinced. I am however seeing a great dichotomy between views. I have talked to people who have only good things to say about Rick. I have talked to others who have had problems. Most of the stories I cannot independently verify. I am relying on someone?s word. There are some things I DO know. Here is the only ?Fact? I possess?

1. There is no doubt there were problems here at Muse?s Muse. I pretty much know who & how much.

That's it for facts...It gets a tad confusing for this simple mind :D. Folks here have every right to be suspicious & cautious. Based on what happened I encourage that. One should always be cautions anyway. This case, at this point, is quite simple in my mind. It?s up to Rick at this point. He will come through in verifiable terms for us here, or he won?t. These are things that I can have direct knowledge of. That will be my measuring rod in the end.

I mentioned this to Jodi too. I will be honest. I WANT Rick to come through. I?m pulling for him. As I have mentioned in the past, I started to consider him a friend as we started to work more together some months ago. I don?t want someone who I consider a friend to be dragged down (by their own doing or someone else?s). I also would like them to be honorable and reflect well on me (as I want to reflect well on my friends and family). I think Rick knows from our phone conversation that I don?t like what happened here. According to him, he doesn?t either and he wants to make it right. This will be easy enough to verify in the end. I am pulling for him, but not blindly.

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Posted 06 August 2004 - 02:42 PM

Guess I should visit this site a bit more often ;) I never saw this thread until today.

I am also a victim to Rick's "fiasco". I also sent money for his services and never got a complete product. I only got little rough workings on it.

At this point, I don't expect my money back and I really don't know what to believe about Rick. I agree with John, he may have people who recommend him, but he hurt people here on the Muse. And people who were affected, now have a negative view on him, including me. Even if he does pull through and deliver the demo's he promised, how do I know that he's not just doing it to regain confidence from people in order to scam more people later?

I will definetely post here if Rick contacts me and will keep you all informed.

#73 User is offline   John Scott Icon

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Posted 06 August 2004 - 02:57 PM

landofsong...

As far as I know, you weren't directly involved in this. Why you throw chip? :D

As far as I know, no one is in a financial mess over this. Juan is by far the one who has the most money at risk at least as far as I know. If I am wrong, someone please correct me. Marty and Russ are not out any money by their own statements. Other than Juan, that leaves myself and one other individual who has not chimed in out any cash and my understaning is that together we are not out as much as Juan. The biggest problem I see, so far, is that Russ had his hopes built up and they were dashed. That is a big deal. Perhaps Russ is in the hole for some travel or something? That's possible. I don't know that.

You assume very much as fact in your post which I would not be comfortable calling fact.

Juan should take care of his business as he sees fit, as should Russ, as should Marty, as should I, as should others directly involved. Can't we just let it go at that for now? I'm not sure what your agenda is with this since you were not involved and to my knowledge, know even less about the situation than I do. We will know soon enough if things were handled fairly from the very mouths of those who were involved. Let them decide what fair is.

Isn't that, ultimately, fair & factual?

This is going to be my last post on this matter (other than presenting other facts that come to light as this plays out). I am not Rick's defense attorney, nor do I want to be. If he doesn't live up to his promises, I will report that. If he does, I will report that as well. Let's just see where this ride takes us in the end. Shall we?

:)

#74 User is offline   RLD Icon

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Posted 06 August 2004 - 03:01 PM

Unbelievable...
it just keeps getting worse...how many more are out there?
How anyone would consider working with him after this is beyond me.
Hope you guys get your money back, but I doubt it will happen...

RLD
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Posted 06 August 2004 - 03:21 PM

How dare you say that to me John Scott. It's an open board. And as it happens I HAVE had something to do with this. Scroll back why don't you. I was the person who contributed to persuade ANTI why it was right to name names. AND AND AND - if ANTI had not named names none of you would have 'come out' and shared your stories. Without these shared stories everyone thinks Rick D is Kosher and is not forewarned in case they are courted to record for a set sum!!!!!

And YES YES YES. It does concern me - I too can be approached by him as a member of the Muse. I can also take part in any open discussion or debate. HELLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! It's called democracy!

And it's more than that. It's called UNIONISATION - I am not in the least surprised that an avowed republican/death penalty supporter would have a problem with that.

And PS John - knowledge is power - if people helped each other out and shared information instead of isolating themselves in some false individualism then this sort of RD problem would be nipped in the bud.

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Posted 06 August 2004 - 03:29 PM

John, your words make a lot of sense. Myself I won't judge how other people handle the situation, anyone can do whatever they want and it'll be fine with me. I understand that, being a friend of yours, you are more careful about this but I only talked to him twice before he disapeared with my money so I don't really care for nothing more than my money.

I'd sure like to hear an explanation of why this happened and I won't bite Rick if he calls me, however I won't do more business with him, that's for sure.
The one request I have is that somebody that has a phone # that Rick has answered to lately, please send me a PM with it. John, I asked you for the # and you didn't answer. I don't know if you forgot or you don't want to give me his phone #. If so, I'm gonna have to ask you again for Rick's #, I think it's fair I have the chance to give him a call to talk about it after what he did. I know he said he'd call but I guess you understand I don't really trust his words.
Regards

Juan
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Posted 06 August 2004 - 03:35 PM

Lando,
Please don't take things to places this issue doesn't need to go. And please, don't tell people how they have to feel about this ("I feel you are being far too forgiving Juan. Your $550 dollars may be no big deal to you and the messing about hasn't broken your heart, but what about all the people who have ended up in a financial mess and are depressed by what he's done").

Juan

PS- I'm not democrat nor republican, just in case you wonder
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Posted 06 August 2004 - 03:41 PM

I must say John, I think you are bending over backward to put Rick in a good light.
You really can't be impartial as you are working with him and want to see him come out of this intact.
You said "If he doesn't live up to his promises, I will report that."...
He ALREADY hasn't lived up to his promises...
he took money from people for services and did not deliver...
it may only be $100 here...$200 there, or $550 from individuals...
but add it up and its not a small figure.
The fact that something is coming out of this because it was put on the net for all to see doesn't make him any less of a cheat...he just got caught.

RLD
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Posted 06 August 2004 - 03:44 PM

Juan: I feel means I feel. If I said you are being far too forgiving I would be telling you. As it was I was just saying how I felt about it.

Re John telling me I had nothing to do with it. If someone takes a shot at me I feel free to answer back just as boldly!

#80 User is offline   John Scott Icon

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Posted 06 August 2004 - 03:45 PM

landofsong, on Aug 6 2004, 03:21 PM, said:

How dare you say that to me John Scott. It's an open board. And as it happens I HAVE had something to do with this. Scroll back why don't you. I was the person who contributed to persuade ANTI why it was right to name names. AND AND AND - if ANTI had not named names none of you would have 'come out' and shared your stories. Without these shared stories everyone thinks Rick D is Kosher and is not forewarned in case they are courted to record for a set sum!!!!!

And YES YES YES. It does concern me - I too can be approached by him as a member of the Muse. I can also take part in any open discussion or debate. HELLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! It's called democracy!

And it's more than that. It's called UNIONISATION - I am not in the least surprised that an avowed republican/death penalty supporter would have a problem with that.

Fact is, I was on this with Russ before (or at least simultaneously) you encouraged him to come out with it. Fact is, I did a fair amount of research before Russ made his post. Fact is, I'm doing a lot of leg work to get as close to the bottom of this as I possibly can. Fact is, I am taking it on myself to try to get the folks here at Muse's Muse what they were promised. In other words, it would have come out anyway. ;)

You are going around making assumptions & telling people how they ought to deal with a situation without being directly involved. Why not let them decide what they need. Why not let this play out and see what happens. What do you want Juan and everyone else to do? Shall we march up and lynch him? ;)

And yes...I dare to say it...it's an open board after all. ;)

Unionization...what a crock...it just sounds to me like you like to stir the pot. :D

Now pull your undies out of that bunch they just got in and have a nice remainder of the day.

(If you can't tell, I'm having a bit of fun with you. I found your post quite humorous).

:D

John (Dr. Death) Scott

#81 User is offline   Juan_M Icon

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Posted 06 August 2004 - 03:46 PM

I have a lawyer working on this, do you think I'm being too forgiving?
www.juanalbarran.com

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Posted 06 August 2004 - 03:50 PM

It would be sensible to share a lawyer...all those ripped off. Far less expensive and also a better case. A compilation of shared grievances.

As to you reporting Rick, John. Who to? The fair trading people? The business malpractice people? By the time they get round to sifting through the story a lot more people could have a lot more problems with this guy.

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Posted 06 August 2004 - 03:57 PM

Being patronising is not the same as having a developed sense of humour John. I suggest you get your Calvins out of a tangle and start developing one.

And then there is the Musicians Union. They have a body of knowledge to draw on. Equity, Writers Guild etc.

#84 User is offline   John Scott Icon

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Posted 06 August 2004 - 04:25 PM

RLD, on Aug 6 2004, 03:41 PM, said:

I must say John, I think you are bending over backward to put Rick in a good light.
You really can't be impartial as you are working with him and want to see him come out of this intact.
You said "If he doesn't live up to his promises, I will report that."...
He ALREADY hasn't lived up to his promises...
he took money from people for services and did not deliver...
it may only be $100 here...$200 there, or $550 from individuals...
but add it up and its not a small figure.
The fact that something is coming out of this because it was put on the net for all to see doesn't make him any less of a cheat...he just got caught.

RLD

Roger,

I realize that I have put myself in a precarious position. What I mean by not living up to his promise is the "making it right" process here at the Muse. I do understand he has not lived up to his obligation previously. I lost contact with Rick about the same time everyone else did until two nights ago. I asked someone else he has been working with (from my research) to ask him to give me a call and he did. So at this point I am not working with him other than this current process we are all going through.

I am under no delusions here. Yes, I would like to see him make amends, both for his sake and the sake of the people who have been wronged. I also have not recommended that anyone work with him and understand how people here (including myself) have doubts about how this will end up. I just think we have a pretty good vehicle to judge if he does right for this community in the end by the results of this little excercise to see if he comes through. That doesn't mean people still shouldn't be wary after all that has happened. They should and that is understandable.

The damage has already been done in this community. I'm sure he will get no more demo work from the Muse's Muse. The real question is will he at least try to do the right thing in the end. Perhaps you are right. Perhaps he is only doing this because it got brought up in a public forum. Maybe not. I guess I don't know the answer to that question. But making it right and aplogizing to those harmed at least points things back in the right direction.

I have no business dealings or financial ties to Rick (other than a song that ended up being a co-write). The only thing that will really be hurt substantially here, for me personally, in the end, are my feelings if he doesn't come through. I am looking at myself as a mostly independent participant in this mess that is rooting for him to do the right thing. I was forthcoming early on about how I viewed Rick before all this happened to be fair to you guys. I am not naive or blind though. The chips will fall where they will fall and we can all go on from there.

Yes, I am probably slightly biased. I also am hurt that all this happened. I want to see what is right be done in end. No matter what the result ends up being. Just trying to be as fair as I can to all involved.

Did that help at all Roger? It does matter to me what you and other Muse's think of me. I value my reputation and do not want it besmearched.

I will keep you all posted on any info I get as I get it.

#85 User is offline   John Scott Icon

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Posted 06 August 2004 - 04:28 PM

landofsong, on Aug 6 2004, 03:50 PM, said:

It would be sensible to share a lawyer...all those ripped off. Far less expensive and also a better case. A compilation of shared grievances.

As to you reporting Rick, John. Who to? The fair trading people? The business malpractice people? By the time they get round to sifting through the story a lot more people could have a lot more problems with this guy.

No, it would have come out right here. I wast communicating with Russ and some other folks when this story "broke". I was just trying to get some evidence (circumstantial as it may be) behind me before I made a comment.

#86 User is offline   FunkDaddy Icon

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Posted 06 August 2004 - 04:33 PM

I think the only reason Rick is "making things right" is because he was publically outed. He doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt.

I hope everyone gets their wrongs righted.
Mark
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Posted 06 August 2004 - 04:34 PM

Juan_M, on Aug 6 2004, 03:29 PM, said:

John, your words make a lot of sense. Myself I won't judge how other people handle the situation, anyone can do whatever they want and it'll be fine with me. I understand that, being a friend of yours, you are more careful about this but I only talked to him twice before he disapeared with my money so I don't really care for nothing more than my money.

I'd sure like to hear an explanation of why this happened and I won't bite Rick if he calls me, however I won't do more business with him, that's for sure.
The one request I have is that somebody that has a phone # that Rick has answered to lately, please send me a PM with it. John, I asked you for the # and you didn't answer. I don't know if you forgot or you don't want to give me his phone #. If so, I'm gonna have to ask you again for Rick's #, I think it's fair I have the chance to give him a call to talk about it after what he did. I know he said he'd call but I guess you understand I don't really trust his words.
Regards

Juan

Hi Juan,

I got your message last night. Chances are you have the same phone number as I do. If you want to PM me or email me I will confirm that for you. I also had trouble getting a hold of him at that number for a long time. But he was there the other night. If that's not the one, I will certainly ask him if it's OK if I give it to you. I don't think it's appropriate to give out someone's # without permission. I wouldn't give out yours or anyone elses and I expect others wouldn't give out mine either. However, if you already have it anyway...

email me.

:)

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Posted 06 August 2004 - 04:40 PM

FunkDaddy, on Aug 6 2004, 04:33 PM, said:

I think the only reason Rick is "making things right" is because he was publically outed. He doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt.

I hope everyone gets their wrongs righted.

Maybe so. Like I said, the damage has already been done here.

If I keep this up, I'll be up to 1000 posts in no time!!! :D

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Posted 06 August 2004 - 05:40 PM

Quote

Some might say I paid too much...or too little

Some might say you bought an illegal copy...
you can't copy software and sell it to people...that's illegal...
This just gets better and better...

RLD
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Posted 07 August 2004 - 02:50 AM

RLD, on Aug 6 2004, 05:40 PM, said:

Quote

Some might say I paid too much...or too little

Some might say you bought an illegal copy...
you can't copy software and sell it to people...that's illegal...
This just gets better and better...

RLD

What does this mean, who said this?
Did someone erase a post or something? I can't find where this was said.

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Posted 07 August 2004 - 03:52 AM

For the record, anyone heard anything from Rick? It was the 23rd July when Russ posted that Rick would be in contact with anyone who had work outstanding, thats 2 weeks ago. I havent heard anything for one.

M

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Posted 07 August 2004 - 03:59 AM

Helicon1, on Aug 7 2004, 02:50 AM, said:

RLD, on Aug 6 2004, 05:40 PM, said:

Quote

Some might say I paid too much...or too little

Some might say you bought an illegal copy...
you can't copy software and sell it to people...that's illegal...
This just gets better and better...

RLD

What does this mean, who said this?
Did someone erase a post or something? I can't find where this was said.

Was going to say the same thing lol. Mystery post.
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#93 User is offline   Marty g Icon

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Posted 07 August 2004 - 05:32 AM

Rick has contacted me, despite all the negativity I have to admire that, im going to give the guy a chance, I just have a gut feeling about this. Please do the same until/if we know otherwise.
Marty

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Posted 07 August 2004 - 07:04 AM

Marty - the 'used' musers are so unmilitant they are certainly going to give Rick more than the benefit of the doubt. Obviously it is better he gets the chance to deliver on his promises before legal people come into it. BUT. I do not understand why Rick doesn't post a public answer (if he really is in a sort of 'can't be helped, not of his doing, #### up kind of mess') here on the Muse.

John Scott you owe me an apology. It is completely out of order to bring my knickers into such a serious conversation.

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Posted 07 August 2004 - 07:52 AM

landofsong, I appreciate that you feel strongly about this, but please refrain from personal attacks in this conversation. Enough is enough. John, to be fair, I have to warn you too.

Please stop, guys.

Discuss what this thread is about and leave it at that. Agree to disagree.

Thank you.

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Posted 07 August 2004 - 09:23 AM

About the mystery post...long story short...
the person is obviously embarrassed that they paid $150 for an illegal copy of Cakewalk software,
So the post was deleted...
the plot thickens...

RLD
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Posted 07 August 2004 - 01:51 PM

Just wanted to let you all know that Rick called me today. He gave a somewhat reasonable explanation of why this whole mess happened. A lot of things still aren't clear to me but I told him I didn't really need the details so we didn't talk a lot about what happened between Rob, Ted and him.
To me the most important thing is that he told me that next week he would send me my money and that he would do the 3 songs we agreed for free. I told him he didn't really need to but he insisted so I guess he'll end up doing something for me anyway.
As I said, to me the important thing is he sends me the money and it seems like he is going to do that. Besides, I have to admit it must've been hard to pick up the phone and call everybody so I guess I'll give the guy a second chance.

Juan
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Posted 07 August 2004 - 02:44 PM

Glad he finally contacted some people. Though, I still haven't heard from him.

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Posted 07 August 2004 - 05:40 PM

He told me there was one person left for him to contact and that he'd do it soon. What I did was calling him and leaving a message with my # and letting him know I was gonna be at home for a while. He called 20 minutes later.
He's always sent me an e-mail with some more explanations about the issue. I think he's trying hard to fix things and it looks like the guy could use another chance.

Juan
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Posted 07 August 2004 - 05:42 PM

I dont know... why would anybody normal waste Russell?
baaah I should be kicked for not writing any lyrics

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