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Songwriting Chat Logs |
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A Log of our fifth Guest Speaker in the Songwriting Lounge - March 15, 1999
with Nashville Songwriter/Producer, Dinah Brein.
A short bio:
"Dinah Brein is a writer/producer, now living in Nashville. She has had songs recorded by Stephanie Mills, Christopher Cross, Thelma Houston, Fee Waybill, Rita Coolidge, as well as having her music heard on Melrose Place, Brimstone, Baywatch, and in such films as Jack Knife, Lambada, Homer & Eddie, Nightmare on Elm Street, Perfect, Kick Boxer and many others. She has songs on hold currently with James Ingram, JoDee Messina, John Berry, Martina McBride, Anita Baker, and Colin Raye. She has a dog who loves her and a wacky sense of humor. A quote by Sally Field, "I like her.......I honestly like her"!"
Once again, this log is packed full of helpful information for beginners and pros alike. As per previous logs, it's exactly as is - and I should warn you that the language occassionally gets colourful. ;-) If you're offended by such things, I suggest you read something else. Consider yourself warned, ok? Otherwise, enjoy!
-- Log on dinah.log started at Mon Mar 15 17:39:35 PST 1999
...........................Dinah joined............. :)
JodiMuse Hi Dinah. Welcome. :-)
DavidPiano Great Jodi.
DavidPiano Hello Dinah.
DavidPiano Be right back (brb)
Dinah Hi All. I'm a bit early, but I wanted to be sure to "be on time"
JodiMuse No problem, Dinah. Good to have you here. :-) You've got the hang of the chat?
DavidPiano Back.
Dinah Give me some crucial pointers. I can type pretty quick, but I'm not sure if it will be pretty
Dinah How much can I type in this slot?
DavidPiano Don't be surprised if you get bounced.
Dinah it's happened all my life.
JodiMuse No worries, Dinah. You can type a lot, actually. But you may want to limit it to a sentence or two just for people's screens to catch up. They'll wait for you though.
DavidPiano As much as you please, Dinah. It will just stretch out in your typing box and format appropriately in the viewing screen.
Dinah Okay cool.
JodiMuse :-) Cute, Dinah. When you're done typing, just type [done] or something to that effect and we'll know to ask for another question.
DavidPiano Got a pad, paper and a drink. Set for the chat. :-)
Dinah Wait let me get a cigar and my sweedish maseuse, SVEN
DavidPiano Jah dat's guuuud.
JodiMuse People will type a "?" if they want to ask something and either myself, Jeff, Ralph or Danny & Sara (we'll probably pick one of us to take care of things once they're here) will tell them when to ask, paying attention to when you're done. And can I have Sven when you're done? ;-)
DavidPiano What was that crack I heard?
DavidPiano :-)
Dinah Sure, he'd love a free trip to Canada. David, are you really only 12, i read one of the other chats where you spoke
DavidPiano 13.
DavidPiano Yes, I really only am 13.
DavidPiano Which is why I don't make it here often. School starts early.
Dinah Cool. What kind of stuff do you do?
DavidPiano And I can't very well sleep through my first period courses.
Dinah what grade are you in and where do you live?
DavidPiano Well, I'm in the school jazz band, as pianist, and I'm in the school musical's orchestra.
DavidPiano I'm in Grade 9 and I live (literally) five minutes away from Jodi.
...........................Marti joined............. :)
DavidPiano Hi Marti.
Dinah Howdy Marti
JodiMuse David here is multi-talented. Plus, when you're talking here, you'd never know his age. Hi Marti ! I see you made it at the right time this time. ;-)
Marti Howdy!
DavidPianoWhy thanks Jodi.
Marti YES!
DavidPiano You're more advanced than I am.
JodiMuse<--laughs.
DavidPiano Marti - don't believe we've met. Where are you from?
Dinah Marti - where are you from, is Marti a guy or girl?
JodiMuse I think Marti's new, actually. Welcome!
Marti Lexington, KY
Marti Thanks!
Dinah Well, we're almost neighbors. Are you a writer?
Marti A gal!!!!
Marti Yes!!!!!
Marti I'm co-writing with a guy now!
DavidPiano We have two sets of almost neighbors.
Dinah 4 exclamation marks, I take it you're sure of what you are :)
Dinah As we speak....now?
Marti Much fun!!!
JodiMuse :-) That's great, Marti. What genre do you guys write?
Marti LOL
Marti Country.
Marti Both sexes.
DavidPiano That genre seems to attract a lot of writers.
JodiMuse It certainly does.
Dinah country is really starting to open up a lot more, it's no longer just "twang central"
Marti It helps, yes.
Marti Dinah...?
JodiMuse I've heard some really lovely country songs in the last few years. Winona is a favourite of mine.
DavidPiano Yeah. Now the Eagles are kicking themselves for being around 20 years too early!
Marti LOL
...........................neonralph joined............. :)
JodiMuse Hi Ralph!
...........................IreneJ joined............. :)
DavidPiano I heard the worst thing on the radio yesterday - Shania Twain dance remix.
neonralph Good evening, folks!
DavidPiano Hey Irene and Ralph.
Marti HI Ralph!
JodiMuse& Irene! Hello. :-)
DavidPiano See Ralph, I told you I'd make it!
Dinah Winona is about to cut a new album. Then she's doing another record with her Mom
IreneJ HI there :-)
neonralph And there you are, DP!
Dinah Hi Irene
Marti I'm glad her mom is OK.
IreneJ Hi Dinah
JodiMuse I really *love* Winona. She has one of the most gorgeous voices in ANY music today, to my mind.
Dinah Hi Ralph
neonralph Welcome to the Lounge, Dinah!
DavidPiano How are you Irene? I haven't seen you in a while.
Marti Woman to Woman...nice song
JodiMuse Irene has a new web site! It's wonderful!
IreneJ No? I think I was here last week...weren't you?
DavidPiano Nope.
DavidPiano I haven't been here in about 4-5 months.
Marti What is Irene's website?
IreneJ Ah, that's why...so it's really that I haven't seen YOU :-)
IreneJ irenejackson.com
JodiMuse And we missed you terribly, David. *Didn't* we, Irene? *poke poke*. ;-)
DavidPiano True, if you want to get technical.
IreneJ It's not exactly finished yet...still some pages to update
DavidPiano
DavidPiano :-)
IreneJ We love David :-)
DavidPiano :-)
IreneJ He's the next generation Piano Man
DavidPiano And David loves we.
JodiMuse<---musses David's hair.
DavidPiano Nahhhh.
DavidPiano
DavidPiano :-)
Marti Pluck my strings David!
IreneJ Yikes!
DavidPiano OK, not gonna go there.
Marti Sorry.
Marti Sorry.
neonralph Wow, Irene...GREAT front page!
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DavidPiano Hi Dan, Sara
IreneJ Hey...I'm glad you checked it out...thankyou :-)
JodiMuse Isn't it cool, Ralph? Hi Dan & Sara!
Dinah Howdy Dan!
danNsara Hi everyone
IreneJ Hi Dan&Sara!
neonralph Personality!
JodiMuse I love the personality of it, Irene. See? Ralph thinks so too!
DavidPiano What is it, Irene? www.irenejackson.com
IreneJ lol...well, I've got plenty of that..you're right Jodi, that's what you said
Marti When do we get to ask Dinah questions?
...........................Lisa joined............. :)
IreneJ Yes
IreneJ Hi Lisa!
DavidPiano Hi Lisa
JodiMuse Well? Do you have a question, Marti? Dinah? Are you ready?
JodiMuse Hi Lisa!
Marti Hi Lisa
Dinah all set
Lisa Hi there, everyone!
DavidPiano Very nice, Irene.
Dinah Hi Lisa
DavidPiano Girl with guitar.
IreneJ Thankyou DP :-)
DavidPiano Irene: Girl with Guitar. Me: Kid with Keys.
DavidPiano :-)
JodiMuse Ok Marti. Go for it. :-) What's your question?
IreneJ :-)
Dinah First of all, I'd like to thank everyone for being here. This is very exciting
Marti What is your opinion of songpluggers VS. publishers?
JodiMuse Thanks for being here, Dinah. We appreciate it.
IreneJ Yes!
Marti YES!
IreneJ lol
DavidPiano We do, Dinah.
Dinah The songpluggers are the true workhorses. They're the ones on the every day trail, the publishers collect the dough
Dinah My pleasure.
DavidPiano ?
Marti But songpluggers get paid
JodiMuse Are you done, Dinah? If you are, just tell us so - so we'll know to let someone else ask a question. :-)
Dinah I have a songplugger who makes the everyday pitches. He's always in the field. It's real important to have great relationships with the A&R guys and producers to make things work
Marti They can be separate frompublishers.
Dinah Yes, they do get paid, and if they're smart they have built in incentives should they get the cut, but usually they don't get copyright. Done
Marti Thanks
JodiMuse Go ahead, David.
Dinah ooops, Did David get bounced
DavidPiano Dinah, do you have any guidance for someone who wants to make the transition from being mainly a player to advancing his writing skills?
DavidPiano No just a long question.,
JodiMuse Nope. There he is. :-)
Dinah Yes. Start colaborating with other writers, attend songwriter workshops, make your demos sound clear and professional
Dinah Find an area of expertise and then find a collaborator who will compliment what you can't do, say your a musician, find a lyricist
DavidPiano What if you have toes in the water in both?
IreneJ ?
Dinah My strong advice is TO LISTEN TO THE RADIO. Too many writers think they're "above what radio is playing"
Dinah What do you mean David
DavidPiano Say someone's capable of doing both, but they haven't honed either of them and it takes them a long period of time to churn out anything of value in either area.
...........................iceapple joined............. :)
iceapple ?
Dinah Well then, I would say do one thing well, say work on a piece of music to you get it where
iceapple hello
Dinah you're really proud of it. Then go find someone to put lyrics to it. Someone you admire. Or, write a really
Dinah strong lyric and get someone to write the music. That opens you up a lot and gives you new people to work wityh
Marti Dinah...A pro demo is essential in Nashville...YES? Am I out of turn? David..send the music to me!!!!
DavidPiano OK, thanks Dinah.
Dinah You must have a gut feeling where your strength really lies....done
JodiMuse :-) Yup, Marti. Afraid you are. Irene had a question. Go ahead, Irene. Then Iceapple when Irene's question has been answered, ok?
............................Lisa left ............. :(
Dinah Yes, a good demo is now essential. It used to be they could "hear" a simple piano or guitar vocal....
iceapple I have a problem in set music to lyrics. I play the piano. How do I do it?
...........................Lisa joined............. :)
JodiMuse Iceapple, Irene's question is first, then yours, ok?
Dinah now, they want the whole bloody song before it's going to be considered
iceapple sorry
IreneJ Dinah I understand you're based in Nashville...have you felt a difference because of the 'downsizing' that's been happening lately?
JodiMuse It's ok. :-) Just wanted to keep people from having to wait too long.
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Dinah I'm not sure of your question iceapple.
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iceapple I have a problem in setting music to lyrics. I play the piano. I don't know how to start
DavidPiano Hi AM
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DavidPiano WB Dan, Sara
Dinah Iceapple see above answer to David.
iceapple I have set music to it before, but I didn't like it, now I am stuck.
AjillityMuzic Hi there all! Welcome Dinah
Dinah Next question
IreneJ Hi Ajil...
Dinah I'm sorry, what was the question
IreneJ Dinah...sorry, I guess the script went off the screen...
JodiMuse Could you repeat your question Irene?
Dinah Oh, it was downsizing right?
IreneJ Yes!
iceapple I am better in music, I guess.
IreneJ Thanks, I didn't want to retype that, lol
JodiMuse Hi Ajility! If you have a question, just type a "?" and we'll get to you, ok?
AjillityMuzic Hello there!
Dinah Okay, there has been downsizing, mostly getting rid of writers who have had a lot of inactivity while maintaing a large draw. They still are signinggood writers though
Dinah I just got a deal with EMI, mainly because I write many different styles, and keep my hand in film and tv as well
IreneJ Good...so it hasn't affected you too much,then?
IreneJ I guess versatility is the key
Dinah Also, I'm a producer. And that's another feather in their cap. If I find a good artist, write and produce for them, then sell the product to a label, that's more money for them
JodiMuse That's gotta be handy...
Dinah It helps, of course, I'm still competing with many other people. And lots of writers are moving to Nashville,
Dinah It seems the LA scene is pretty much contained to artists right now
IreneJ Oh, that's good to know...
JodiMuse What do you mean, "contained", Dinah?
Dinah Interesting thing group, a lot of my rock alternative stuff is getting picked up by Nashville artists, they like the style of music and the interesting lyrics.
Dinah I mean self-contained, artists like Alanis Morrisette, Jewel, Sheryl Crow, etc
JodiMuse Ahhh. So artists that write and perform their own material.
IreneJ Well, I'm heading to LA then :-)
Dinah A good example is Mark Chestnutt just had a big hit with the Aerosmith Dianne Warren song
...........................pulsar joined............. :)
IreneJ Hi Pulsar :-)
neonralph Irene...visit LA first! ;-)
Dinah Be prepared about LA, there's more artists looking for deals. But a good song is essential!
DavidPiano Hi Pulsar
Dinah Next?
JodiMuse Iceapple? Did you want to elaborate on your question?
IreneJ lol...I'm going in the summer, ralph...kids want to see Disneyland
iceapple okay
JodiMuse Ooo! fun!
Dinah Any relation to Vanilla Ice?
iceapple um... It's hard to do it...
AjillityMuzic lol
iceapple no relation to Vanilla Ice..:-)
neonralph The singer/songwriter scene in LA is not what it was 4 or 5 years ago.
JodiMuse What was it 4 or 5 years ago, Ralph?
IreneJ That's where you're from ralph?
Dinah By the way, everyone wants to get into country. The guys from N'Snyn just cut one of my songs on a young girl they want to produce who's country
Dinah Sorry, that's N'Sync
neonralph Hopefully Tom Ianello's new place (The Exile) will bring things back around.
JodiMuse Congratulations, Dinah!
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IreneJ I'm playing there in July, ralph!
Dinah Thanks
DavidPiano Oh man. She'll get tons of attention with N'Sync's hands in it.
............................Marti left ............. :(
DavidPiano Hey Jeff.
JodiMuse Hi Jeff! :-)
neonralph Yes...I'm in Riverside...about an hour east of LA.
IreneJ Hi Jeff :-)
neonralph Hi Jeff!
JeffM Hi
Dinah Hey Jeff!
JeffM Hi Dinah
JodiMuse Jeff is another of our co-hosts, Dinah.
...........................Marti joined............. :)
DavidPiano WB Marti.
Dinah Great.
Dinah Where's everyone from?
DavidPiano Toronto Ontario
AjillityMuzic Phila Pa
JodiMuse He has a great songwriting resource at www.lyricist.com. You should check it out if you get a chance. :-) I'm in the Toronto Canada area too.
Dinah Al right, I was born in Philly!
IreneJ Victoria, BC Canada
Lisa New Jersey.
JeffM Northern California
Marti Am I found?
AjillityMuzic Now way... cool!
Dinah Were you lost?
IreneJ lol
Marti The plug got pulled!
Dinah Way!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AjillityMuzic We got snow here
AjillityMuzic lol
............................iceapple left ............. :(
DavidPiano Sorry.
JodiMuse Sorry Marti. It happens sometimes.
Dinah We had a lot of snow here today, all melted though
DavidPiano You got the remnants of our January storm.
Marti Ok!!!
Dinah So, back to music.....who's next
JodiMuse Ugh. DON'T talk to me about snow. :-)
DavidPiano Sorry about that, the snowbanks crossed the border.
DavidPiano :-)
Marti ?
JodiMuse Go ahead, Marti.
neonralph Snow? What's that?
Marti What do you compose on, Dinah?
JodiMuse<---gives Ralph a pinch.
DavidPiano Ralph - to experience snow at fullest, you must have been here in January.
Dinah Guitar and piano. My ballads are easier on piano, because I can be more diverse with chords, rhythm stuff is easier on guitar
JodiMuse Yes. You could shovel our driveway. A truly envigorating experience.
DavidPiano And a good cardio workout to boot!
Marti ?
............................neonralph left ............. :(
JodiMuse Come on guys. You going to let Marti ask all the good questions? ;-) Go for it, Marti.
Marti Pro demos are essential in Nashville...yes?
DavidPiano ? after Marti
...........................neonralph joined............. :)
DavidPiano WB Ralph.
IreneJ He seems nice...if you go there let me know, I'd just like to hear what it's like...oops, you got the boot!
IreneJ Oops...sorry guys
Dinah Yes, absolutely. you only have a limited time when you're playing for someone important, you've got to impress
Marti Thanks
JodiMuse David?
Dinah It doesn't have to be elaborate. It depends on the song, a ballad can be done with a simple piano but it has to be clear and understandable No cats screeching in the background
DavidPiano From a producer's standpoint, you have a novice in the studio. What behaviour irritates you, and what behaviour do you adore.
DavidPiano Simple do's and don'ts of the studio.
Dinah That depends, is the novice an artist or a musican hired to play something
DavidPiano Either. Artist I guess.
...........................Clueless joined............. :)
DavidPiano Hello Clueless.
Dinah Show up on time. Number one. Be open to suggestion from the producer. Be innovative in your approach.
Dinah Listen and perform from your soul.
JodiMuse What do you consider "innovative", Dinah? Can you be more specific?
Dinah Also, develop your own style. Don't try to sound like everyone else!
............................pulsar left ............. :(
Marti ?
Dinah Garth Brook and Shania Twain are successful because they are unique and take chances
Dinah go ahead Marti
Marti How long have you been a producer?
DavidPiano ?
Dinah For the past 4 years. My description of a producer is someone who looks at the big picture, not just the song.
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Marti And someone who sees talent and promotes it?
Dinah Everything is important, what the bass is doing, where the piano comes in, how each word is phrased and them making it sound effortless
...........................danNsara joined............. :)
DavidPiano WB Dan & Sara.
Lisa ?
Dinah Well that job ideally is with the record label and the publicist. But yes, a producer recognizs raw talent and molds it into something viable and commercial
Dinah Hopefully, then the label and the promotion team take over
Dinah Go ahead Lisa. I'm all ears
Lisa How did you get started in the songwriting business, Dinah?
............................JeffM left ............. :(
Dinah Funny thing, when I was in high school, my boyfirend was a poet, very Jim Morrison stuff. I admired him but really couldn't write that way
Dinah However, I found I had a real talent with lyrics, very conversational, then I was a frustrated lyricist, so I began writing music so I wouldn't have to wait for my prince charming music collaborator
...........................JeffM joined............. :)
DavidPiano WB JEff.
JeffM rehi
IreneJ lol
Dinah When I was little, my parents used to play Frank Sinatra and Tony Bennet a lot, then I got into Strisand before she was cool.
JodiMuse Ah... The Rose.... ;-)
Lisa So lyrics were where you started - then music came later?
JodiMuse I used to sing along with her RECORDS. *chuckle*
Dinah My idols have been james taylor, Paul Simon, Sting, Carole King and Melissa manchester. I'm going to write with Melissa this April, I can't wait
DavidPiano Wasn't that Midler, Jodi. . ."The Rose"?
JodiMuse Streisand did a version of it too. And "People"...?
Dinah Yes music definitely came later, but I'm glad I developed that skill
Marti ?
IreneJ James Taylor...that's one of my favourites too :-)
DavidPiano ?
JodiMuse James Taylor is a god. :-)
Dinah Even lyricists here music in their heads when they write, that's how they know what will sing well and what sucks
DavidPiano"I've seen fire and I've seen rain. . .seen sunny days I thought would never end. . ."
Dinah a good lyricist that is
JodiMuse Good point.
Dinah If you are a lyricist, it's real important to make them sound like conversation. Billy Joel is the best there is for that!
DavidPiano
JodiMuse Oh, don't get David started. ;-)
DavidPiano LOL
Dinah Listen to Goodnight Saigon, it's brilliant
DavidPiano Or Laura.
IreneJ I have to run everyone...thankyou for an enlightening chat, Dinah!
DavidPiano Bye Irene.
JodiMuse Bye Irene!
danNsara bye Irene
Dinah You're welcome Irene, I'll check out your web page
AjillityMuzic nite Irene!
IreneJ Hope I'll "hear" more of you! Bye!
IreneJ lol
neonralph Bye Irene!
IreneJ Goodnight :-)
............................IreneJ left ............. :(
Dinah Who's next
JodiMuse Ready for the next question, Dinah? David's been waiting a while. :-)
JodiMuse Looks like you're up, David. Marti, you'll be next, ok?
DavidPiano Dinah, say you have an artist that has music which isn't that commercial anymore.
DavidPiano Sounds like something from a bygone era.
Dinah Example?
DavidPiano Good music, just not heard from much anymore.
DavidPiano Someone who writes piano pop/rock a la Elton John, Bruce Hornsby, Joel.
Dinah Well, Harry Connick brought back big band, so did Brian Seltzer. It depends how bygone you mean
DavidPiano Like 70's singer/songwriter era.
Dinah Hornsby is not out of style. I use his style in my music today. Do you mean like Carole King or James Taylor
AjillityMuzic ?
Dinah I don't think the above artists you mentioned are out of style
DavidPiano How would you go about marketing/producing that for a rap/dance/R&B/hard rock oriented market.
DavidPiano No, they're not Dinah. They just don't sell as much as they used to.
Dinah Well, a producer friend of mine cut a real updated version of "I Think I Love You" with David Cassidy, it did great in the clubs
Dinah A good song can go many different versions. Taking a "standard" and putting into a rap genre can be done with the right procuer
Dinah producer that is.
DavidPiano Let me rephrase then. . .
Dinah Richard marx would still be viable today
Dinah please
DavidPiano You have an artist who isn't mainstream. Without pulling in different genres, and reworking his music, how would you market it?
Dinah You said an important word. Viable. It has to be viable, or else the labels can't make money and they're not interested
Clueless ?
Dinah Why would you want to do something that can't be commercially successful
DavidPiano For the musicality of it.
DavidPiano The bebop artists weren't popular until someone important picked up on it.
JodiMuse There's nothing that says you can't enjoy playing your music, David. I think there's a difference when you're trying to make money from it though.
Dinah Many of the new artists are more folk, Jewel, Joan Osborn, but.....they are interesting and they're songs are univerzsal, they appeal to everyone. That's the key....be universal
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DavidPiano True Jodi.
JodiMuse Can we move on? There are questions building up here. ;-)
DavidPiano OK I am finished.
Dinah Good point. A lot of my friends are writing like Bob Dylan, There's only one Bob Dylan
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Dinah Yes,
DavidPiano WB Jeff.
JodiMuse Ok. Marti? Go ahead. Then Ajility, then Clueless.
Marti How long did it take to get your first song cut...Dinah?
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DavidPiano WB Lisa.
Dinah Hmmm, probably abour 5 years. Although, God knows I tried. You have to really love it Marti, because it's a hard road to hoe, lot's of rejection
Marti Thanks!
Marti I'm Hopeful!
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Dinah That's all part of it. Sometimes you grow from the rejection, sometimes the people are just frustrated assholes, you have to know the difference, but be open to all
DavidPiano Hey Pug.
Dinah Next
DavidPiano :-)
Marti lol
AjillityMuzic Dinah, first: Thanks for taking time to share with us tonight. My question is: Some writer could have the best song in the world, follow all the lyrical rules & have it polished to the "T".... cont'd
JodiMuse Hi Pug! We have a guest speaker tonight so if you have a question, just type a "?" ok? Go ahead, Ajility!
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pug3 go hello everyone nice to be back
AjillityMuzic but please explain the "How To's" of developing good contacts, networking, and getting your song to the right person.
Dinah Aha, a buddy of mine everyone Chk Pls. Great writer
DavidPiano BRB
DavidPiano Hi Chk.
JodiMuse Hi Chk. :-)
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Marti HI!
Lisa Hi Chk, love your name!
JodiMuse I guess Chk doesn't have any questions. *chuckle*
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chkpls Typhi back.. who's speaking tonight>
Marti lol
Dinah Good contacts are forged. Always write a thank you letter when someone gives you a meeting. Alreays read the trades and know who the important people are
pug3 bark,bark
JeffM Hi Chk
Dinah Follow up politely when you give someone a tape. Wait a week, call and check it but don't EVER BE OBNOXIOUS
chkpls is someone in the kitchen with Dinah?
Dinah Right Jon?
JodiMuse I take it you know how to be obnoxious, John? ;-)
Dinah Go to writers nights, meet writers and ask them if you can give them a tape, start collaborating.
Dinah No, that's not what I mean, Jon is "persistant"
Dinah Be nice Jon
chkpls dinah. What is happening with "I can still Feel You"?
Dinah ?
pug3 dear Jon been there done that even got the T-shirt to prove it
chkpls is that the right title?
Marti Colin Ray has that!
Marti Yes, I think.
chkpls the one on hold for david kirsh
AjillityMuzic Thanks for the advice Dinah!
Dinah No, it's I Think Of You. Right now John Berry says he wants to cut it, he's just waiting for a producer
Dinah you bet!
JodiMuse That's great, Dinah!
Marti Great!!
JodiMuse Clueless has been patiently waiting...
Clueless Dinah, when you went from being a lyricist to writing music, how did you learn to write music? Where and/or from whom did you learn?
Dinah Everyone, Jon here wrote Check Please with Paul Jefferson which was a great single for him
chkpls oh that's right. sorry. By the way. Dinah is a great producer herself. I know . I have heard her productions.
JodiMuse Congratulations on your success, Chk. :-)
chkpls thanks.
JodiMuse Clueless? You still there?
Dinah Thanks Jon, well Clueless, I'm self taught on the piano, although I took some basic lessions to learn my chords. I write mmusic, but I'm not a great player! That's all that's necessary, then you hire the good guys to come into the studio
Clueless Yes
DavidPiano ?
JodiMuse Oops! I missed your question. *blush* Sorry.
Dinah Sorry about the spelling, I think faster than I type
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DavidPiano Hi Tuner
Dinah Next
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Clueless Thanks!
Tuner2 Hi all
pug3 to Davidpiano you seem to have a great knowledge of keyboards wouyld you share that?
Marti HI!
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Dinah Howdy
Tuner2 Late as usual
pug3 hello
DavidPiano I'd be glad to. How do you mean, Pug?
Dinah Hey pug
Lisa ?
Dinah Yeah Lisa
neonralph Dinah, that's good to hear about your piano background...that's how I learned too. :-)
Clueless Goodnight, ya'll.
Lisa You said you went into the studio but wasn't that expensive - hiring guys - especially for a beginner who has not cuts yet?
Dinah Playing by feel and braille rather than training, that's my style
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Tuner2 I guess i missed a bunch huh?
pug3 I have a YamahaQY 20 is it sufficient for computer records
chkpls dinah. what is the bigest difference in writing in L.A. verses Nashville?
JodiMuse A bit, Tune. But there'll be a log so no worries.
DavidPiano I don't know a lot about that Pug.
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Dinah Well, I have a publishing deal, they pay for my demos. Find someone who has a 4-trak or a little home studio, collaborate with them, then get your demos done that way
pug3 understand
DavidPiano ?
Marti ?
Lisa Thanks, Dinah - great advice.
Dinah Jon, you know the assholes here are more pleasant, in LA they tell you to your face you stink, here they invite you to dinner, but never take your phone calls
Dinah Your welcome Lisa
AjillityMuzic I must hit the hay. Thanks again Dinah! G'nite all.
Dinah Adios
DavidPiano Bye AM
JodiMuse Bye Aj!
chkpls nicely put
Tuner2 nite aj
neonralph LOL!
pug3 goodbye
Dinah Gracias
JeffM bye
Marti BYE!
Dinah No question pug
AjillityMuzic bye :)
JodiMuse Was there someone waiting before David?
pug3 Pug has a case of trigeminal neuralgia
Marti YUK!
Dinah sounds ugly, take Nyquil, that a general cure all
Marti lol
Tuner2 brb
Dinah Okay, who's next, wow me
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JodiMuse You have a question, Dinah?
JodiMuse lol
pug3 dear marti thans
neonralph Hey folks...gotta run. Thanks for joining us tonight, Dinah!
JodiMuse Bye Ralph!
DavidPiano Bye Ralph.
Dinah my pleasure
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JeffM bye ralph
pug3 goodbye ralph
DavidPiano Can I go, Jodi?
JodiMuse Are you ready, Dinah?
pug3 go with safety
Dinah yup
JodiMuse Go ahead, David.
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Dinah hey dannsara...talk to me
DavidPiano Dinah, how do you think playing in bands influences/boosts your writing after the fact?
Tuner2 hi d$s
danNsara hey Dinah, we've been agreeing with everything you said...we're Nashville writers too
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DavidPiano Hi LC
Tuner2 hi lc
Dinah It teaches you how music should be collaborative. How all the instruments together can produce a feel
pug3 fellow lc
Dinah it also opens you up to using different instruments which makes the musical piece more interesting
LC Hello
Dinah Hi thre
Dinah Okay David
Dinah I take it you mean a school band>
DavidPiano ;-)
DavidPiano Any band, independent, school-run.
DavidPiano
JodiMuse lol
Dinah In a school band, you have to conform to the good of the group, an individual band allows you to explore other genres
JodiMuse Why not, David? The rest of us do. ;-)
Lisa ?
DavidPiano LOL Jodi.
pug3 come on over to my kitchen by the allman brothers
Dinah Lisa...you're on
DavidPiano Thanks Dinah.
Dinah De nada
Lisa Dinah - you said you're about to collaborate with Melissa Manchester - how will the two of you work together - start with lyrics or music first?
Dinah Good question. Melissa is definitely more music, so either I will have a great lyric, a hook or a title to interest her. I'm really looking forward to it
pug3 trigeminal neuralgia is acting up goodnight everyone, Pug
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JodiMuse Sounds like quite an enjoyable challenge, Dinah. How'd you get the opportunity?
DavidPiano Bye Pug.
Tuner2 gnite pug
Lisa So sometimes you only start with a title when you work with someone?
Dinah Also, melissa is a whiz on piano, so I will probably bow to her expertise. David, here's a good example, Melissa although extremely successfull is feeling outdated dow
Dinah now, that is, so that's why she's coming here to write with new writers. She heard some of my material and liked it, that's why we're hooking up
DavidPiano Great.
JodiMuse That's great, Dinah!
Dinah Yes, a title can open up lots of opportunites. Of course with a title, you have to have a
Dinah general idea of what the story would be.
chkpls that's wonderful.
Lisa Thanks again Dinah - very informative. Good Luck with it.
Dinah I'm hoping so!
LC ?
Dinah I'm a big fan of her early stuff, she's amazing
Dinah Yes LC
LC What is the best way to find someone to colaborate with?
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Dinah I don't know where you live, but if there are songwriter locales, go hang out. See who's there
Dinah and who you think you would be compatabile with. Also, if you have a songwriter assoc. where you're from, show up, take some classes
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DavidPiano WB Marti.
Dinah If you have a local artist paper, put an add in asking for some collabos
JodiMuse For those of us that are Canadians (ie: Me and David - and Irene when she was here...) The Songwriter's Association of Canada is a great place to start. But there are US equivalents.
Dinah that's collabs.
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DavidPiano Is there an age requirement on the SAC?
DavidPiano :-)
JodiMuse Not that I know of, David.
DavidPiano Hey Jef.f
Dinah Absolutely, here we have NSAI, in LA there's NAS and LASS, every local town has its places
JeffM I'm too quiet today :-)
JodiMuse Yes you are, Jeff. :-)
Dinah Scream JeffM
JeffM Is this the songwriter therapy portion of the chat?
Dinah Start your own group if you have to.
Tuner2 hope so
LC ?
Dinah Absolutely, I absolve you of all your sins, now go create
DavidPiano LOL
JodiMuse :-)
Dinah It's all your parents fault anyway....isn't it
DavidPiano Jeff - I have paper, need some?
Dinah repeat after me. I AM SOMEBODY
DavidPiano Or would tissue be more appropriate?
Tuner2 yes you is
DavidPiano Say it loud - I'm arty and proud!
JeffM I AM SOMEBODY
Tuner2 yes you is
Dinah I'M MAD AS HELL AND I'M NOT GONNA TAKE IT ANYMORE, SORRY, WRONG MOVIE
JodiMuse lol
DavidPiano Is you is or is you ain't a writer.
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Dinah oKAY, who's next
Tuner2 I'll have what she's having...
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JodiMuse LC?
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Dinah damn that dan N sara
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DavidPiano :-)
danNsara lol
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LC Are you a performer and a writer Dinah?
DavidPiano WB Marti and Dan&Sara
Tuner2 hi dns
Dinah oops they're back dan Nsara what are you two doing
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DavidPiano If this damn chat doesn't make up it's mind I'm gonna....
danNsara eating a popcorn dinner while we chat
JodiMuse Unfortunately, sometimes this connection is less than stable on some machines and with some interfaces, Dinah. You've been lucky so far. ;-)
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Marti Sorry, must be me
Dinah I'm more of a writer, although I did do a writers night recently. In LA, I just was a studio rat, since I'm not an artist, that's what I do best, write
Tuner2 it's never kicked me off........yet
Dinah Yeah, I've been lucky so far, the God's are with me
JodiMuse Also, if you're entirely quiet for too long, the system kicks you off for idling. ;-) But you can stop that from happening by just sending a letter to yourself in private - or privately chatting with someone while you read.
DavidPiano
Marti thanks
Dinah DanNSara, say something
Tuner2 ooohhhh nnoooooo
danNsara ummm
DavidPiano ?
Dinah Are you two people are just schitophrenic
Tuner2 studio rat........
Marti hi jeff!
Lisa ?
danNsara no, there's two of us...we're a co-writing husband/wife team
Dinah where are you two from
JeffM hi Marti
Tuner2 allow me to introduce myselves....
DavidPiano :-)
Dinah who's a faster typist....Dan or Sara?
danNsara we live in Nashville...Sara and I both write for publishers too.
Dinah Cool, who
danNsara I'm faster, but Sara's more accurate
Dinah That's never stopped me
DavidPiano :-)
JodiMuse Dan & Sara are our other co-hosts, Dinah. Ralph who just recently departed, & Jeff are our others. :) (And me.)
Tuner2 Dan n Sara ......I thought it was bobsled team
danNsara Sara writes for Zamalama music and just got a cut on John Michael Montgomery's new album. I write for
Dinah Who do you both write for?
danNsara CDP musi
danNsara music
Marti what is the song?
Dinah Excellent. I had 6 JMM holds, none of which panned out. Good for you
DavidPiano ?
Dinah Wait a minute, is that Sara Light
danNsara It's called "Home To You"...he just sang it on pay-per-view at the Astrodome...quite exciting
danNsara yes
danNsara do you know me?
Marti INeat!!
Dinah I met you two at a party once, Michael and Annie Henderson
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Dinah Do you remember
danNsara wow!
danNsara now I do
Marti I know jm's sister!
Dinah Small world, huh
DavidPiano"It's a small world after all"
danNsara weren't we supposed to get together?
Dinah But I wouldn't want to paint it
danNsara anyway, we should get back to the Q&A
Marti Hopefully, she will demo for me sometime
Dinah Yes, and we abolutely should!
JodiMuse I think you're a little overdue, guys!
danNsara our humble apologies to the group
Marti songmd.com great site to find collaborators
JodiMuse I meant that you guys are a little overdue to be collaborating. How long ago was it you met?
Dinah Thanks guys
Dinah Over 1-2 years ago. Gulp
JeffM I need to go to those parties
JodiMuse Well then? Here you go. Fate has tossed you together. Don't dissapoint it. :-)
DavidPiano I need to find a party.
Dinah Abolutely
danNsara we need to find a life
Marti Yes! She's great! Her brother is part of a duo now..Hillbilly Shoes is their song
Tuner2 I never get invited to cool parties..... :-(
Dinah Hey, at least you're married and have each other, that's a lot. Me, I'm a lonely writer
JodiMuse I wish I could GET to those parties. Ah well. Toronto's too far away. But I'll live vicariously through Dan&Sara, ok? *giggle*
DavidPiano Can you say "tangent"!
Marti Montgomery/Gentry
danNsara yes, we'll definitely get together and we'll let the group know how it turns out
DavidPiano Jodi - you and I can throw one of our own. :-)
Dinah That's a great song. Those guys were looking for a long time
Dinah Okay, so now we're all back and cooking right
Marti Yes! With gas!
Tuner2 eggs are on
Dinah Don't say gas, I'm in a small room
Marti lol
JodiMuse This is your brain. This is your brain on.... Oops. Pardon me. (ahem)
DavidPiano With bad air circulation. . .
Tuner2 bbbbbbbrrrrrrrrrttttttttt!
JeffM Just say No to eggs
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Tuner2 oops......
JodiMuse Ooooo. Smell-o-vision....
DavidPiano OK, how many of us have OD'd on sugar today?
DavidPiano :-)
Marti lol
Marti mememememe
Tuner2 meeeeeeeeeeeee
Dinah No, but I did see Laurie Canan today, do you remember her
JodiMuse I think we're getting a bit goofy here. *chuckle* Anyone have a question for Dinah before we all die of the stink of eggs?
DavidPiano ?
Lisa What are your biggest "cuts" and maybe tell your most interesting story of how you got a cut on an albumn. Sometimes writers get cuts in weird, unusual ways, I've heard.
Marti ?
Marti Go, Lisa
Dinah I've got a great story about that? Wanna hear it?
JeffM yes!
Marti YES!
DavidPiano Please.
JodiMuse Ooo. Good question. Definitely, Dinah. Go for it.
Tuner2 yes
Lisa Yes, yes!
DavidPianoYay! Story time!
Dinah I had a number #1 with Stephanie Mills called the Comfort of a Man. One day, I was listening to the radio,
JodiMuse Ooo. You're just *askin'* for it, David... *laugh*
DavidPiano LOL
Tuner2 and?
Dinah heard a great song, pulled off the road and looked the artist and the producer up. His name was Lamel Humes
Dinah I was working at BMI in LA, and I asked someone if they knew the producer
Dinah One girl at the job, knew him, but wouldn't give me the number, so.....I snuck
Tuner2 uh oh
Marti AH OH
Dinah in her office late at night, stole his number and called him. I got his answering machine
Dinah I said, Hi, you don't know me, I stole your phone number, but I write the kind of songs you produce
Dinah if you believe a good song can come from anywhere, and you believe in God, call me what do dyou have to loose.
DavidPiano Someone isn't shy.
Marti WOW!
JodiMuse :-) Good job, Dinah! You're definitely deterimined!
JeffM Did he call?
Dinah A few days later he called. He said, I didn't know whether I should call you or call the policd on you. I made him lauagh.
danNsara would that be assertive then?
Marti But not obnoxious
DavidPiano NOOOO, neeeeever obnoxious.
Marti lol
Dinah I said, today's my birthday, just give me a po box, I'll send you a song, if you like it cool, if not I'll never mogher
JodiMuse You made *one* phone call. That's assertive. Five would have been obnoxious.
danNsara what about four calls?
Dinah bother you again. He gave me an address. Called me two days later, and said he was cutting it on Stehanie Mills.
Tuner2 baaad dog...........................got the bisquit!!!!!!!
Marti wow1
danNsara very cool story
JodiMuse Depends. Can you make him laugh four more times? ;-)
Dinah That's the honest to God truth. It doesn't happen like that very often though
DavidPiano ?
JodiMuse That's very cool, Dinah.
Lisa Great story - see, I knew you had one like that!
Dinah By the way, the girl never did know I stole the number!
Marti Awesome!
JodiMuse We won't tell. Will we guys? ;-)
Tuner2 noooooooo
DavidPiano No.
Marti Now..what is that number?
JeffM No, she'll just have to read about it online...
Marti Kidding
Dinah Bless you all. I'd have to kill all of you then
Tuner2 br549?
Marti lol
Tuner2 Thanks for a great story, Dinah
JeffM 1-555-867-5309
Dinah Once, I attached a song to a box of Lucky Charms for Trisha yearwood, because
DavidPiano And the girl's name was Jenny, right Jeff?
Dinah I heard she was going to Ireland. She didn't cut the song, but I heard she ate the LUCKY CHARMS!
JodiMuse lol
DavidPiano Oh man.
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Marti WOW!
DavidPiano Hi Billy.
Tuner2 hungry!
Dinah You have to be creative in this line of work
DavidPiano :-)
Marti lol
BillyLee Hi all!!
JeffM Hi BL
Tuner2 hi BillyLee
Marti HOWDY!
danNsara Hi BL
BillyLee thx
JodiMuse Hi Billy. Say hi to Dinah. :-)
Dinah Gee, Jodi, I hope you clean up my typo's if you archive this!
BillyLee Hello, Dinah...nice to meet you!!
JodiMuse Don't worry, Dinah. We can all read typonese quite well. It happens all the time.
Lisa Hi BillyLee.
DavidPiano Jodi - these things go on warts and all, right?!
Marti Mine too!
Dinah Yo' Quiero Taco Billy Bell
Tuner2 Isn't that Jeff's job?
JodiMuse Is it ok for David to ask another question, Dinah?
JeffM Both of our jobs. We're redundant
BillyLee<---hates mexiican food, Dinah...grin
Dinah Yes, but no obsolete artist questions okay David :)
DavidPiano Fine.
DavidPiano :-)
DavidPiano Agreed.
JodiMuse lol Go ahead, David.
Tuner2<------pass it to him
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DavidPiano How would one go about signing with a publishing company/forming one's own?
DavidPiano Hi Sng
Tuner2 hi sngwrtr
JodiMuse David, there's an article online at The Muse's Muse that explains all that if you're interested.
JodiMuse Hi sngwrtr! Welcome.
Dinah Well, that's a loaded question. In order for a publishing company to sign you, they have to think that you have commercial
BillyLee ?
Dinah songs, and that they can make money off of you. If you have material they feel is strong
sngwrtr Hi all
danNsara Hi sngwrtr
Dinah or, if you have a cut coming out, you are immediately viable to them. Otherwise, they have to feel you have the capacity to get a cut before they sign you
Dinah Anyone can start their own company, but can that company compete in today's market....that's another question all together
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DavidPiano WB LC
Dinah It's really important in Nashville to have a publisher, unles you are a big known writer, otherwise, they don't really take you seriously, ri
Dinah right Dan and Sara
DavidPiano And to pitch songs/cut songs/copyright songs, is it necessary to have a publishing company?
Dinah see above answer
danNsara absolutely (unfortunately)
DavidPiano Guess it is imperative.
DavidPiano OK thanks.
JodiMuse BillyLee?
Dinah Otherwise, your tape goes into the "circular file" translation, trash bin. Also, sometimes a lawyer can help you if they feel stronly about your material and have good contacts
Dinah Okay>
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BillyLee Thanks...Dinah, i have a tendency to overproduce my demos....I really enjoy the studio time...but I know that's counter-productive, hat least financially...any suggestions?
Dinah LC is picking up lots of travelling "bonus miles"
Tuner2 Lc's a ping pong ball tonite
DavidPiano Frequent Bouncer Miles
JodiMuse Is there a card for that?
DavidPiano Sorry, that should be Bouncee
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DavidPiano Hi Mikey.
Dinah Yes. Great question BillyLee. My solution, really think out your production PRIOR to going
LC Sorry, I got cut off
Mikey HI everyone; I'm late
Dinah into the studio. This will cut down on the...."hey let's try this" scenario.
JodiMuse Oooo. Those can go on *forever*.
Marti Dinah...If a song is on hold...can the songplugger still plug it to somebody else?
Dinah It can really eat up studio time. I usually do a work tape, bring in a song that has the same feel that's already been demoed and let the players hear it
BillyLee my problem is, i get there, and think..."Man, this song really needs...
Dinah if they hear what you're going for, it cuts down time and they have a better idea what you're looking for.
Dinah Another way is to do the basic rhythm tracks, then bring in the accessorie guys as overdubs
Dinah Dig?
BillyLee Thx!!
Dinah Soitenly!
BillyLee hehe
Lisa ?
Tuner2 ?
Dinah Go ahead someone
Lisa What do you think about using drum machines at home to make those worktapes you spoke of. I just bought my first one and now I wonder what I ever did without it.
JodiMuse I think Lisa was first?
Tuner2 yes
Dinah Absolutely Lisa, I have an Alesis SR 16. They're helpful
DavidPiano Alesis systems ROCK!
DavidPiano :-)
DavidPiano (no affiliation with Alesis whatsoever)
Lisa That is so cool - that is exactly what I bought - proves I have good taste, I guess!
Marti You're cool!
Dinah I hate to program it though, so I use the pre-sets, which does kind of limit you, but lett the players know it's just an "idea" of what you want.
DavidPiano I have a QS8. Wonderful keyboard.
Marti And you can punch in fills
Lisa I use the presets too - though programming is supposed to be easy, they said.
LC ?
JodiMuse Ready for the next one, Dinah?
Dinah Yeah, "they" are all rocket scientists!
Dinah yeah fire away
JodiMuse lol
Lisa lol
JodiMuse Ok, Tuner2. Go for it.
Tuner2 Dinah, how do you feel about pitching songs to new, but talented artists.....as opposed to established artists?
Dinah oops did I make a funny
Marti lol
Tuner2 punny
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Dinah Great question Tuner2. I was facing that recently. David Kersh was going to cut one of my songs he had on hold
LC How much does it cost to do a demo in Nashville?
Dinah Another artist, Shane Minor was in the studio and wanted to cut it right then, I had to honor the hold,
Marti OH
JodiMuse LC, just a moment while Dinah finishes answering Tuner2's question. We'll be right with you, ok? :-)
danNsara Dinah, you might want to explain the "hold" policy for those who don't know
Dinah David didn't end up doing it, and I lost the cut. Sometimes you never know who's gonna be the next Mindy McCready or Shania Twain, also
Marti Man
JodiMuse Good idea, Dan&Sara.
Dinah a new artist usually has the record label behind them to try and break the artist. So a new artist
Dinah is not a bad idea. It's a crap shoot though.
Tuner2 ok I understand . Thank you Dinah....I love craps!!
Dinah Okay, a "hold" is nothing more than a gentlemen's agreement.
Tuner2 I know
Dinah Sony publishing has started a new policy
Dinah that policy says you can only have a hold for a 2 week period, then you have to
Dinah ask for another 2 weeks. This hopefully will cut down on artists holding on to your song forever
BillyLee two weeks?????....wow
Tuner2 that's good. they all should do that
JodiMuse Wow! That's ground-breaking.
JeffM that's short
Dinah and then doing nothing with it. We're hoping all labels will adhere to this now. So many good dongs have fallen
Tuner2 But fair
BillyLee I hope they set a trend!!!
Dinah through the cracks because of this practice.
danNsara and the idea of it is that the song can't be pitched to other artists while the one artist has it on "hold"
DavidPiano
Tuner2 i know
Dinah Well, that is the idea, but it's also wise to play a song for someone, mention the hold but
Dinah if someone else is REALLY INTERESTED in the song, you can use that as leverage with the artist that has it on hold at that moment
DavidPiano OK, I'm going to sign off now.
BillyLee Play it for everyone you can!!!
JodiMuse Bye David!
Marti Good
DavidPiano It was very nice meeting and talking to you Dinah.
Dinah you know,..."are you sure you're going to cut this, cause if not, someone else wants it
BillyLee ?
danNsara or someone may even ask for a back-up hold. Bye David
DavidPiano I have a page and a half of new information.
Marti Bye, Piano Man!!!
Dinah BYE MR. DAVID.....KEEP WRITING!
DavidPiano Thanks for all the information.
Tuner2 Thank you Dinah that's Very Good information
Dinah my pleasure
DavidPianoDinah, is there anyone finah. . .
DavidPiano Whatever.
DavidPiano See youse later!
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Dinah Of course, i reserve the right to be full of shit. Ooops can I say that
BillyLee hehe...a REAL person...grin
JodiMuse lol. You can say that. I may put ***'s through it later, but you can say that. ;-)
danNsara but never obnoxious :)
JodiMuse No. Never obnoxious. ;-)
Dinah Oh never!
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Dinah Hi Mikey! Where you from
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JodiMuse Guys, I hate to do this, but it's been two hours, so I think it's time to let Dinah catch her breath again. ;-) Dinah? Any last words?
Marti I must go also..my birdclock just hit the woodpecker and I have 3 houses to clean....Thanks DINAH!
Mikey Hermann, MO that's as in Mis-er-ee
Tuner2 noooooooo Dinahhhhhhh! It got me too!!!!
BillyLee Hey, I'm from Columbia, MO
Mikey You're
Dinah Last words, ahhhh yes, write from your soul, not from your head, keep doing it, listen to the radio
Mikey Billy Lee McDow????
JeffM thank you Dinah
BillyLee Yep...frandson?
JodiMuse Thank you very much for dropping by, Dinah. It was great. :-)
danNsara thanks Dinah
Mikey Yep
BillyLee Thx, Dinah?
Dinah Be as innovative as you can without being illegal and believe in yourself. Or, marry a doctor. How's that
Lisa Thanks Dinah.
danNsara what a small cyber world we live in
LC Thank-you
JodiMuse lol. That's pretty good.
Dinah true enough
JeffM Is stealing illegal...?
Tuner2 Thanks a bunch , Dinah
Tuner2 illeagle is a sick bird
Dinah It's been a pleasure guys, I truly enjoyed it, Thanks Jodi!
Dinah Is that it then?
BillyLee Come AGAIN!..PLEASE...I'll be on time...grin
JodiMuse We were pleased to have you here, Dinah. :-) Ok guys. I'm going to end the log here.
Tuner2 me toooo
Dinah GOOD NIGHT ALL
-- Log stopped at Mon Mar 15 20:02:38 PST 1999
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